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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
chazzzy007
540 posts
 


jays_audio_lab OP4,196 posts06-24-2021 8:41pmYou’re correct but they also lose the smallest nuances and minute details that only solid state or class D can pick up.

Jay that’s going to largely depend on what tubes you roll into a setup. I have both a Tube DAC (Modwright Oppo 205) and a Solid state/Tube Hybrid headphone amp (Pathos Inpol Ear). I heard everything you did (not really everything cuz you were live). BTW with bass the MSB also picked up subtle textural differences the dCS didn’t. IMO that was another thing that set it apart from the dCS.

On tubes...
Some are more Euphonic and warm while other can be drier and much more airy. There are all types of shades in between. Just like solid state amps, pre-amps and DACs. My headphone system tilts to reference neutral just to the musical vs dry side. The 75 Reflektor driver tubes in my Pathos and Modwright Oppo are very solid state like on speed and soundstage, great detail and airy all while having a very musical presentation. Not warm, just rich and musical. I also have some 60’s Siemens CCA grey shields which everyone regards as one of the holy grail of 6922 driver tubes. IMO the Refektors are better. Similar sound but the Reflektors do everything a bit better. I also have had some 60’s Telefunken 6dj8’s. They are warmer than both of the above. My 1971 Western Electric 422a rectifier is off the hook good. Simply an unbelievable rectifier tube. Rich, transparent with an unbelievable 3 dimensional soundstage. Sometimes the sound feels like it’s coming from outside my Utopias.

What I mean to say by all this is just like in solid state you can build a tube setup that can sound just like how you want it to sound. Really rich and warm, to dry and airy detailed or anywhere in between. It just take lots of effort and some experimentation to find the right combinations.

What tubes do much better than even the best solid state though is project instruments and vocals in 3 dimensional space. In this regard no solid state can touch what tubes do here. It’s absolutely magical when you get everything right.
That’s what we all chase.

I say all this as a 2 channel guy btw. I only bought my headphones in December 2020 for late night movie listening. No real intention to listen to lots of music with them. How good they initially were inspired me to buy more and more headphone gear- like you. How good my headphone rig has turned out to be has absolutely floored me. Truly reference. Unbelievable sound. Wow.

We all continue to learn. It never stops unless you think you know everything. Then you stop learning. I’m going to take Pokey’s suggestion for the Aurender improvements and see what happens. I’ll report back after that gear breaks in. I’ll also consider Ricred’s suggestions too.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Not sensitive at all. Just again, none of your business. Sometimes I’ll listen through headphones from a computer. Sometimes through headphones from the headphone amp from my dac. Sometimes through the speakers of my main system. Depends where I am and how much time I have. Last two months I haven’t had much for a reason I posted.

Oh, and I may have ripped attitudes of gear superiority or dogmatic adherence to fringe audio stances, but never gear (well of anyone’s other than WC, but he wants us to critique his gear). Huge difference between that and what you allege.

One other thing I’ve spoken out against is too much discussion or pushing of gear that has nothing to do with WC’s room or journey, which most or all of my stuff is. So I’d be a hypocrite if I now started doing that; again, another reason I don’t mention my stuff on this thread- it’s boring in comparison. If you are really that interested, you can search my 1400 posts. I don’t know if you’ll find what you’re looking for, but maybe. ; )

Even if you wouldn’t turn it into gear-shaming, plenty of others might. It’s not relevant. 

Finally, I couldn’t care less what anyone thought of my audio assessments, which seems to be what you’re worried about. If you think my assessments are junk, that’s totally cool with me, because I’m not trying to impress anyone.

Which of my audio takes do you disagree with? I’ve probably provided more takes than many (even ranking the last set of amps by tiers) so there’s plenty of potential to disagree
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Most of the people who voted in the dac shootout simply said which dac of the two they liked better. Or listed a reason or two. Which is totally fine.

WC listed 10 categories (or was it 9, whatever). And msb won 6 or 7 of the categories for him.
Yet he didn’t like msb better than dcs. He said that. Why do you think that is? One reason could be that the categories he thought dcs was better in are more important to him, right? Otherwise he should have liked msb better because it won 6 or 7. I suppose there could be other reasons. I suspect he actually liked dcs better but doesn’t want to say it, but that’s just a guess. Let’s see which of the two gets more play going forward.

So I wouldn’t get too hung up on all of that. Most people just picked which they liked the best, and that’s cool. I wouldn’t assume that meant they couldn’t hear what you think you heard. Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t. Maybe they didn’t think it was important.

No reason to feel bad about being in the minority.

it sounds like you think your setup for listening to the videos is as good or almost as good as being in WC’s room. Do you think that?  That would be an opinion that probably would be contended by many as impossible given YT limitations 
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Here’s another reason I think WC likes the dcs better, but doesn’t want to say it. This assumes you’ve been paying attention to the channel or even the thread long before the channel.

Does WC ever keep anything? No. It always goes. Let’s be honest - if reference were better than dcs, dcs would have been gone on day one, or at least day 1 after the shootout. But it’s still here. Even if they were equal dcs would be gone because that’s what WC does, churn gear. He gave reasons like hard to reacquire but has that ever stopped him? Nope. Plus he said Vivaldi will soon be in pawn shops so if that’s true shouldn’t be hard to reaquire dcs. That’s all the more reason to dump Rossini, unless….. you know


Which dac was in the system for the video after the shootout? Yep, dcs.

Think about it (now WC will probably switch it up just to mess with me, haha)


kren0006
1,859 posts
 
So the shootout I think WC said was filmed last Saturday. And then there was a video after the shootout.

Notice anything interesting in that video? Did you see the msb Reference in that video? I’m not talking about it playing. I’m asking, did you see it on the rack? I didn’t.

Why is that? Only WC knows. Let’s see what happens.

WC has had Rossini for at least a year straight, I believe. That normal for him with components? Normal for him with something like that to keep it after he brings in something that costs much more (reference $$ >>rossini $$)? I haven’t seen him ever do that, but hundreds of times I’ve seen him do the opposite - jettisoned the old stuff he’s had forever (well he’s probably never had anything for a year straight like Rossini, but you get the picture). So let’s see.

This wouldn't be first time WC said he was keeping something or even might have said he like it better and then next day it was gone, and the other thing stayed for months.  Remember Wilson Sasha DAW and whatever more expensive Focal he had concurrently?  There was a video that said Focal was better in some attributes and some people got excited, but we never saw that speaker again, and DAW was in the room for like 3 months more (whatever it was) - and there's been like 4 Wilson speakers since and just one Focal. 

So watch what he does and brings/keeps in the room, that's the tell......
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