Small form factor, budget DACs?

Gmood1,
I think that we have been agreeing on almost everything all along & just didn't read close enough to recognize that.
I think that re-stating what my hypothesis could have helped clear the air a bit - I was/am looking for the dominant cause for my case.

>> Maybe this is the problem you hear in your DAC or
>> transport..I really don't know. Honestly I've never
>> cared for the stock Sony 7700 players analog outputs,
>> they are quite the ear bleeders in my book.
well, I think that you might have indirectly hit upon something I wanted to mention in my prev post but it got too long: the issue, I think, lies in my stock DVP-S7000 DIGITAL output (I'm using it as a transport to the SN DAC so the analog outputs do not feature). The S7000 digital outputs have very sloppy rise & fall times, which has the tendency to aggravate jitter issues. Sending it in for a mod to improve this should give me good ROI because it is the digital data stream that the SN DAC sees as its input & it is from this data stream that it extracts a clock & lights up the "lock" LED on the front panel. If an improved digital output buffer adds minimal distortion to the data stream, the performance is bound to improve.

I didn't think that the analog output of the S7000 was an ear-bleeder as much as it was very dull/flat sounding.

BTW, I wanted to clarify that your transport having the Superclock3 has much less to do w/ the DAC jitter performance compared to the quality of your digital output. What is making the bigger diff in your case is the mod to your digital output. Don't get me wrong - the Superclock3 makes a positive diff but it is 2nd only to the superior modified digital output. The Superclock3 would have a dramatic effect if you were using the Pioneer internal DACs i.e. using it as an integrated player, 'cuz this low jitter clock would be connected to the DAC, which would have kicked its performance up a few notches (iffff the internal DACs are good quality in the 1st place). The data stream that your Audio Sector DAC sees is just a 1-0 pattern. Whether it is correct or incorrect data, the DAC doesn't care nor does it know. The job of the Superclock3 in extracting the data from the CD is complete by this time & it is the quality of the digital output that will affect the overall sound.
It is no wonder that the websites of many 3rd-party modders lists the Superclock3 mod as a separate line item & don't always push you into getting it if you are using the unit as a transport. (or, maybe they still do 'cuz they want your money anyway!!)

>> There's a reason why APL,RAM and other modders
>> concentrate so much on the output stage of their
>> players. Which includes doing away with the negative
>> feedback opamps in some cases. I noticed most of them
>> use single ended designs with no negative feedback and
>> powerful output transformers in their top
>> players.
Another point I wanted to clarify - there isn't a single electronic device on planet Earth that can work without negative feedback! Trust me on this - I'm 110% certain! I think that you meant to say that the top CDP modders use output stages with extremely localized feedback to make them sound the best. I agree w/ that.

My sis-in-law lives in ATL. If I'm visiting her, I'll email you & we can probably get together & compare my SN DAC w/ your Audio Sector?
Like-wise, my friend, all the best & enjoy the music! :-)

Bombaywalla, What exactly is done to just modify the Digital out with no clock mod's? Just wondering, cause this would seem to be much cheaper to do than changing the clock.

Also, I have seen some Mods to NOS-DAC's that add a Re-clocker type unit to them, would this be worth simply getting the Digital out modification at the transport and more effective putting the Re-clocker in the DAC itself for the cheapest approch to handle the Jitter issues and get resonably better sound?

Thanks

Undertow,
As I understand it, when mods are done that EXCLUDE the clock mod, the modifications are (1) improving the power supplies - digital & analog, (2) upgrading coupling capacitors, (3) improving the rise & fall times of the digital output to the 1-2nS range from something much higher (like 20-30nS range) & (4) ensuring that the digital output is 75Ohms so that the power/signal transfer to the DAC module is maximized.
If you do this in a DIY fashion, you do not need to mess w/ re-attaching a Superclock3 or Tent XO, etc to the CDP, which is very specific for each CDP & can be quite a pain if there is no guidance. Doing the above mentioned mods (tho' tedious) are relatively simply to do & the parts are freely available from multiple vendors (DigiKey, Newark, Percy Audio, etc).

Yes, I have also seen people add a re-clocker unit/jitter reducer like a Monarchy DIP between the digital output & the DAC input. These type of units seem to be quite cheap esp. on the used market.
I don't know how easy it is to add a re-clocker to the DAC chassis itself - maybe there is a DIY forum where they have discussed how to interface a clock module to a digital receiver like the 8414?
Adding a separate chassis re-clocker seems to be cheaper & easier to do. The sound should improve IMHO.

There is another way stated by a few members already & a growing trend :- use a PC hard-drive as your transport & a sound card to put the data out on a USB port. People like Scott Nixon & Wavelength Audio & Headroom are producing USB DACs to enable this.
Then, you do not have to deal w/ this jitter issue 'cuz you rip the CD to your hard-drive & the sound-card (which has a high quality clock + digital buffer) feeds the DAC.

If you are willing to spend money to upgrade your CDP transport, re-channel that same money into getting a plug-in sound card for your PC, a USB cable & exchanging your DAC to one having a USB input port.

Interesting... I got a little lost on the Re-attaching the XO or superclock, I was looking not to purchase these in the transport and just use the cheap osillator or whatever in there? And ad the better clock in the dac, I am not really completly looking to do this but this is something I have seen done, so upgrading everything but the clock in a CD player used primarily as a transport would be a good idea or not without the clock? Thanks

>> 04-05-06: Undertow
>> I got a little lost on the Re-attaching the XO or
>> superclock,
look at this page
http://www.tentlabs.com/Support/Support.html
click on "XO 2 and 3" to read the mounting instructions to understand what I'm talking about.

>> so upgrading everything but the clock in a CD player
>> used primarily as a transport would be a good idea or
>> not without the clock?
good idea (if you don't want to go the PC route).