How much difference does a phono preamp really make?

Try Allnic H1202. 
It will work quite well with $500 ~ $1000 MM or MC cartridges.

I’ll be able to give you some idea, in a couple of days, what a Bob’ Devices SUT, the SKY 20, sounds like through my cheap ass Musical Fidelity V-Phono, it has a good power supply, so punches slightly above its weight.

The SKY 20 is about the step up my fairly cheap AT MC cartridge needs, and that through the MM section of my V-Phono, should make a substantial difference.

I have a kit for one of the 2 phono sections Bob likes, yes there are just 2, and one of those does not respond. ;} Then things should improve enough for anew cartridge.

You just said the pre is not a concern with Mm or Mi . Thats BS. Pure BS....regardless of output..nonsense.  A better phono pre makes any cartridge sound better that can be better. 
Trouble is you only and always push your ownership bias on all others here. 
The Technics is your idea of best,  not mine and many many others agree. Its just a subjective choice that to many doesnt sound right. The arm...Ive heard better on that exact table. Reason why many swap it out...they know..not opine blindly. How many do you own ? Im guessing none. I kept one for 6 months . Good table not my sense of natural analog sound.
Please stop with the imperialistic opinions that if you dont own it or approve its bad and everyone else shouldnt either. 
Surprirised your not ranting about belts too.
Whats wrong with Newbes and MC's. I know plenty who started there with no problem...
More generalizations n bs....  once again choice is good . Its inclusive and lets everyone have their choice of sound and use. Talking down anything you dont own or approve is not inclusive. It turns off the eager and the experienced to take part.

cog cog cog cog  cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog cog

What's that?















A Technics turntable and all its ilk.

You just said the pre is not a concern with Mm or Mi . Thats BS. Pure BS....regardless of output..nonsense. A better phono pre makes any cartridge sound better that can be better.

You are free to start from the other side, if you’re using average cartridge you can upgrade your phono preamp, but your limit is a cartridge (limit in frequency response, distortion, channel separation, clarity, resolution, tracking ability etc). You can’t do anything about it upgdaring a phono stage!

It’s like trying to play badly recorded vinyl and blame your phono stage, but the problem is SOURCE.
If the vinyl is OK next step is CARTRIDGE (not phono stage).

When we have a decent phono cartridge then a phonostage is definitely very important, because a decent cartridge reproduce what’s on the record correct.

Look at OPs cartridges first!

Trouble is you only and always push your ownership bias on all others here.

This is a common sense, nothing else.

The Technics is your idea of best, not mine and many many others agree. Its just a subjective choice that to many doesnt sound right. The arm...Ive heard better on that exact table. Reason why many swap it out...they know..not opine blindly. How many do you own ? Im guessing none. I kept one for 6 months . Good table not my sense of natural analog sound.

I don’t care about it at all, BECAUSE THE OP’S TURNTABLE IS TECHNICS and he asked for a phono stage, not for another turntable, try to understand it (my personal choice doesn’t matter, and my turntables are two Luxman PD-444, not Technics).

If Technics is red flag for you then try to understand that OP is already the owner of Technics.

Please stop with the imperialistic opinions that if you dont own it or approve its bad and everyone else shouldnt either. Surprirised your not ranting about belts too. Whats wrong with Newbes and MC’s. I know plenty who started there with no problem...

I only post about something I own (or owned in the past 7 years). I posted many times why an MC is not good for a newbie, first problem is low output and as a result there is a noise, second problem is re-tipping process and very short life span of such cartridge in general (especially with average stylus profile). Main problem for a newbie is that he can accidentally damage the cantilever or stylus and then it’s over. It happens.

All these problems are irrelevant for MM or MI cartridges, because the stylus is user replaceable and available separately, no hum or noise with an average phono stage, and the sound is just like master tape with a decent MM or MI.


Personally I like LOMC cartridges too, but I am not a newbie and I have tried and owned over 50 different cartridges in the last 7 years (new high-end and vintage high-end), including some of the best LOMC, MM, MI.

Regarding Technics turntables: I know them very well, using them for over 25 years, the last one was SP-10mkII. But I still have two upgraded SL1200mkII in my second system and I test my cartridges using those decks with headphones. In my main system I have much better turntables and tonearms (Reed 3p, FR64s and FR66fx, Lustere 801, Denon, Ikeda ... ).

But when a person (who own Technics) asking for advice I believe I know what I’m talking about.

The OP cartridges like Denon 110 MC is the worst part in his analog chain, not his phono stages! Logically it’s nice to start with a better cartridge in this situation (it’s also cheaper start with more noticeable results). Because if you will start with a phono stage the cartridge will be like a bad filter between the source and phono stage and a lot of information will be missing and will not be delivered to the phono stage (even if it will be a top phono stage on earch)! This is why upgrading a phono stage (if necessary) is next step after upgrading a cartridge!

If you brain work different it’s not my problem @has2be



NOW LET ME QUOTE THE OP:

Sorry for the noob question...

I have a Technics SL1200-GR turntable with two cartridges; a Denon DL110 and a Clearaudio Performer. I also have two phono stages; a Consonance PM6 and the internal phono stage in my Belles Aria integrated.

I see a weak link and it’s Denon DL110 MC cartridge.
I see another weak link and it’s ClearAudio MM cartridge with unprotected aluminum cantilever with Elliptical tip without ability to change the stylus by user, cartridge generator made by Audio-Technica, but the output of this cartridge is not a problem for OP’s phono stages!

Better cartridge will change everything in his system in my opinion, without upgdading of the phono pre.