2. analog
  3. 160917-2029

Life After Technics SL1200 Mk5

Hi All,

i am starting the hunt for a new turntable and what to hear from past owners of Technics TT's.

My first real turntable was a Luxman PD272 with a Shure V15 Type IV cartridge, both of which I wore out. Given it was my formative years, I loved that set-up. I acquired my Technics 1200 Mk5 about ten years ago after a long journey down the digital fork in the road. 

Due to some technical furniture issues and WAF, I had to set the TT aside, again. I have rolled through various digital gear and currently use a PS Audio PWT and Theta ProBasic III R2R ladder DAC.

Anyway...I set up the Technics again with an AT150 MLX cartridge and....lo and behold...the digital setup, while not possessing that vinyl sound, does sound better than the SL1200 and AT150.

I did not want to believe this, so I reinstalled the cartridge and realigned the table. Same resort. Basically, the sound is a bit tilted to the treble, the bass is a bit thin compared to my digital gear, and the overall sound seems lean.I have fiddled with cartridge tracking and tonearm balance with no improvement.

So what is next? Is it I do not like the AT cartridge? Has my digital gear outgrown my TT?

That is why I want to learn about the experiences of those of you that moved to a different turntable from Technics. What Technics table did you have and what cartridge? What new turntable and cartridge replaced your Technics setup? How did the sound improve? I would appreciate any and all advice!

Thanks for listening,

Dsper


dsper
solypsa's avatar
solypsa
462 posts
 
There are other arms to use in lieu of the Jelco...but in any case yes the stock arm can't track a heavier low compliance cart correctly.
Light mods really wake up the old 1200s but I would, as Chackster suggested, go for an SP10mk2 or the others he suggested if bigger money will be spent eventually.

There are also modern DD aside from Technics from STST, Brinkmann etc. worth considering as well if diy isn't your cup of tea...
dsper OP
663 posts
 
@ihcho 
If I were you, I would buy another brand new cartridge and test the overall setup.
@atmasphere 
The one thing that isn't getting mentioned here is that your cartridge is beyond its freshness date.
You guys are correct!

I took your advice and purchased a new Sumiko Oyster Amethyst cartridge. Don't ask how I exactly decided on this cartridge. I knew I wanted a moving magnet and the weight and height seemed like a good fit with the Technics table and KAB rewired arm. There was a review in Novo Press where the cartridge seemed to compare pretty well to more expensive Sumiko cartridges... 

I set the cartridge tracking force at 2 grams, impedance loading at 47 kOhm, and capacitance loading at 100 picofarads.

A night versus day improvement from the old AT150mlx. 

Better bass/foundation, better drive, and the treble is much better. It is a little bit shrill on a couple of albums but I suspect that it needs more time to break in or it could just be the albums.

Right now I am listening to an old Sonny Rollins remastered in 1987 on the Prestige HiFi label. Much less snap, crackle, and pop with the new cartridge.

So the gap has closed appreciably between my vinyl and digital, which is now a PWT and Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC.

The vinyl sounds more immediate and the digital is smoother. Maybe that is the vinyl having a better live presence?

Now I have to listen a while. FWIW.

Thanks for listening,

Dsper


atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,794 posts
 
Better bass/foundation, better drive, and the treble is much better. It is a little bit shrill on a couple of albums but I suspect that it needs more time to break in or it could just be the albums.
@dsper  Good- glad to hear it!

Since this is a high output MM cartridge its really a good idea to look into cartridge loading. This is because there is so much inductance with the cartridge; that in conjunction with the capacitance of the tonearm cable results in an electrical peak. If the cable has high enough capacitance this peak could easily be just at the top of the audible range!

For this reason loading is essential. I think you'll find that takes out the shrillness and it should sound smoother than the digital once you've sorted it out.


The first step might be to find out the capacitance per foot of your tonearm cable. If its over 22pf and if you have more than about a meter of cable I would consider alternatives. Its essential that the cable be low capacitance and this is why you usually don't see longer tonearm cables since the longer they are the more total capacitance.
dsper OP
663 posts
 
@atmasphere 

Okay, as usual, I learn from your posts.

So, upon more playing around, here is what I did:

1. Left the load impedance setting on the phono preamp at 47,000 ohms
2. Finally found the cartridge capacitance spec on the Sumiko web site (did not come with spec sheet in box with cartridge). Realized I had it set at 200pF so I reduced that to 150 pF on the phono preamp
3. Also found the spec for cartridge height and realized I measured it short, so I adjusted tone arm height accordingly. 

The result seems to a bit less treble harshness and the bass is tighter.

Does this make sense to you or am clearly not understanding what you posted?

Thanks for listening!

Dsper

.


atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,794 posts
 
@dsper I think you are doing well.


You might try dialing in even less capacitance, since the tonearm cable is part of the overall capacitance that is a load on the cartridge. If its an actual tonearm cable and not a generic audio cable then it might be 60 to 100pf on its own (a generic cable might be 4-5 times that amount!). By decreasing the load capacitance by 50pf you effectively raised the resonant frequency by 3 or 4KHz. This probably puts it right outside the audio band. The further you can get it from the audio band the better- it will open up your bandwidth without increasing brightness. 


More to discover