Subwoofer Footing - Connect or Isolate?

"Why would a manufacturer build and sell a product that will not work optimally with the feet supplied knowing that a bad review can kill sales. "


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Why would a manufacture sell a 20K amp with a 10.00 usd power cable.
They don’t expect YOU to use it..

Just because someone puts a name on a box and call’s it "The Best Sub", Doesn’t mean it is... I keep reading how ’So and So subs should know about subs" WHY? 10-20 year old businesses. Most Agoners have been at this STUFF for 40 plus years. So who has the years under their belts.

I keep seeing Points, solid to the floor, no isolation, spring move, La-Te-Da. Mercy!!

In the 70-80s they new to do it.

From the old VMPS web site, below.. Mr Bass Himself Brian C

"Spikes

Spikes both couple and decouple the cabinet/speaker output from the floor.

Bass wavelengths are quite long and, below about 200Hz, boundary dependent. Without a surface to travel along they dissipate somewhat rapidly. A woofer would ideally be as close to a boundary (floor) or multiple boundaries (side and back walls, and even ceiling) as possible, or at least a constant distance from them. By elevating a cabinet from the floor with spikes, you reduce the propagation efficiency of bass wavelengths. So, you decouple bass from the room, even if ever so slightly. The effect is quite audible.

Spikes couple cabinet output to the floor, turning it into a transmission medium. Soundwaves travel through many solids much more rapidly than through the air. Instead of "moving the floor", cabinet output is transmitted to the listener ahead of the music, through the floor (made usually a good carrier of sound like wood or stone). This is why I’m no fan of spikes, and the Sunfire people aren’t either.

Try some damping compound between the spikes and the cabinet (not between the spikes and the floor) and let me know if you hear a difference. I’ve seen composite spikes that were metal only on the tips, otherwise rubber. Should work better.

Since spikes do two things I don’t like--diminish bass propagation, and transmit or even amplify spurious cabinet talk--I never recommend their use.

As Sunfire recommends, rubber or other absorbent materials can be used as feet for speakers or subs.

Since a lot depends on the height of the stand and the materials from which your floor is made, why not experiment? Personally I like Dynamat".

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That was in the 80-90s. 3-40 years LATER I read this

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Speakers and subwoofers like to be solidly mounted to add structure to the enclosure, they do not like to be in micro motion.
The ONLY reason you would ever want to iso mount a speaker or subwoofer is if the energy of the speaker is transfering into something such that it is audibly resonating, e.g. a suspended wood floor.
In that case you would introduce isolstion of some sort because not using it is worse than using isolation.
isolation is a compromise solution, the speaker is now in micromotion. no isolation is always best if the speaker isnt causing something else to vibrate audibly.

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Sounds confusing doesn’t it?

Everything vibrates. HOW MUCH? That is the question.

IF the cabinet is not solid to begin with, it’s certainly not going to get that way setting it on the floor. You can ADD weight to the structure to mass load then spring load. THINK!! Just like the bus, car, plane, train, horse and buggy, bicycle, motorcycle, baby carriage. When you ride in them, they isolates your BUTT from the road..

There are NO STEEL WHEELS... You don’t couple vibrations to other structures... THINK!!!

Why would a manufacture sell a 20K amp with a 10.00 usd power cable.
They don’t expect YOU to use it..

Most amplifier manufacturers recommend aftermarket cables. Not a single one advises against using them. At best, some may claim aftermarket cables aren’t needed.

Not a single speaker manufacturer, currently active or active during the past 80 years, have ever recommended their speakers be sprung. They all recommend their products be placed on a solid and firm surface.

The idea that using a aftermarket power cable is analogous to putting a speaker on suspension is ridiculous.

A speaker driver cannot possibly reproduce sound accurately when it’s enclosure is moving on the same axis as the driver. It’s simple physics. Very simple physics.

You’re the one who needs to think.

BTW, the caps key is the third from the bottom on the left side of your keyboard.

I just gave you two. Carver and VMPS. I meet Carver when I took a class from him as an apprentice and Worked with Brian Cheney off and on for 30 years before his death in El Sobrante, CA

BOTH isolated their personal rigs, and recommended their customers do the same.

The quote was from the old VMPS site.. NOT MINE...

IF you don’t mind I give BACK the "stupid" remark to whom it came from.. I’ll pass on your gift..

Again if you haven’t been isolating "things" and making sure they continued working for a living. Maybe you should pay a little more attention, before you infer others offer stupid advise..

The coherence between the bass from the speaker box and then transferring it to the floor causes smear. The Two are NOT going to deliver the same frequency at the same time.

That is why guys like MC notice a cleaner more time coherent bass AFTER decoupling from a second source. The floors, walls and ceiling.

"A cabinet output is transmitted to the listener ahead of the music, through the floor (made usually a good carrier of sound like wood or stone)".

"Soundwaves travel through many solids much more rapidly than through the air."

AIR transmits the sound slower.. Brian Cheney "Mr Bass" quoted that, pauly..

That is also why I use separate (directional) MB columns. There is NO sub or bass signals inside in my monitor cabinets.. There is no SUB frequencies in either MB or monitor cabinet..

ALL three types of speaker cabinets are DE coupled from the room and each other.. That is the eye opener of eye openers..
It requires more real estate and cabinets somewhat sized to the room, but it is the very best way I’ve found. BAR none..

Try it, seriously, your going to be surprised if you JUST try it.. I like innertubes the best for heavy Bass bins or subs.. I’d be happy to help if you want to give it a try. I’ve said it over and over. Stereo gear and all its crap is about as sophisticated as the door on a 63 VW Bug.. BUT not quit to the level of a 65 BUG left door.. I’m just a common man who happens to be an OLD heavy mechanic.

After years of repairing heavy equipment over the phone or via Email I could get a little passionate if I had to go do what I told people to do in South America on an off shore drilling platform.. It’s their 50k for 3 days of flying and 15 minutes of work.. 5 times at least that happened.

In California and the West coast every day for over 45 years..

Regards

Bringing back theorems from the 80’s and 90’s does not establish anything other than adding dated opinions into the mix. Vibration management has evolved since that time.

 There are NO STEEL WHEELS... You don’t couple vibrations to other structures... THINK!!!

Using other applications and sciences that are non-related to music reproduction does not fare well either.

Example: Buildings, car chassis supports and other related industries involving isolation techniques and products containing springs do little to reinforce the art of increasing sound quality and equipment performance. I never heard of an architect or car manufacturer or any electron microscope designer relating spring performance to musical characteristics such as attack, sustain and decay.

 

With regards to coupling vibrations to other structures… We have been doing so for three decades. Everything in audio from microphones and their stands, musical instruments, sound and visual reproduction equipment, power distribution, turntables, and structural sound rooms are evidence of successful direct coupling products and applied technology that is obviously scalable and highly adaptable.

It is obvious “oldhvymech”, you are a spring isolation advocate and that is OK, but when you produce challenges and/or statements based on your experiences, you can expect rebuttals, or a few questions directed back to you.

Another topic that is never talked about is the fact that springs wear out from constant compression and lose structural efficiency over time.

What happens to the audio signal when metal or stress fatigue involving a spring begins to set in? Is the human ear capable of hearing the slow collapse in performance or do we just go into the dark time-tunnel because we, as audiophiles, fail to go back to the original reference point replacing old parts with new ones?

Why do the finer spring manufacturers place a one-year warranty on their products?

Why are springs severely restricted to weight tolerances? Do you always have to change out springs because of changes in your equipment investments simply because one chassis is heavier than the other? I imagine the spring manufacturers love heavy-to-light and light-to-heavy selections as those changes simply sell more products.

For these reasons, we prefer mechanical grounding and high-speed resonance transfer techniques (direct coupling) supported by material science and geometries specific to parts shapes and designs that are all married to physics and earthly function. 

There are no weight restrictions governing performance. The smallest of parts can support 6 ounces and perform the same when applying over 600 pounds. When you purchase a bigger part, the mass increases, geometry improves, sonic quality increases, and the parts do not wear out.

Not saying our technology is better or the best as listeners determine those stats. I just wanted to offer up another opinion based on a newer vibration management theorem known as high-speed resonance transfer.

As Always - Good Listening!

Robert