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The Miller Carbon Story

Had a real nice conversation this morning with Origin Live’s Mark Baker. Mark makes some of the very best turntables on the planet and I was interested to learn more. This was our first conversation and so he was interested in me as well. This reminded me of others who have asked.   

The following story is only superficially about the Miller Carbon. The larger and I would say more important subtext is you can do it too! Please dear reader note the number of times something was tried not knowing whether or not it would work. Like all things in life: The more things you try and the more effort you put into it the better you get at it.


The Miller Carbon Story

My first turntable was a Technics SL-1700 with Stanton 681-EEE. It was 1976. Still have that turntable, anyone can see it, right there on my system page.  https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367. Rack on the right. Bottom shelf.  

Next, after college, came the Listening Room and with it a new turntable. This was way before the internet. All we had was Stereophile On Dead Tree. After reading all the reviews it came down to a VPI package or Basis/Graham. What to do? Cast your mind back, way back, to the primitive past. I faxed my question to Stereophile.  

Michael Fremer called me back!   

The Basis/Graham was my own decision. Fremer didn’t talk me into anything. Quite the opposite. He was a source of much useful information that helped me make up my own mind. So it was that I learned early on from Michael Fremer what it is that a reviewer really is supposed to do: provide the reader with the information they need to make their own informed decision.  

My first high end mod was to remove the cheap rubber power cord from the Basis motor and replace it with an inexpensive power cord. Cheap, but proven to be better than all the freebie PCs and I wanted to find out if it made any difference on a turntable motor.  

It did! Same exact improvements heard on the other components it had been tried on before. How or why, who knows, but I heard it. Other mods followed. Different belt materials were used. Silk, cotton, floss. Each had its own influence on the sound. Fascinating!  

This was all part of the process of investigating turntable performance in order to upgrade. Easy to read about different materials, mass, motors, bearings- but what does it all mean in the real world? This was my way of figuring it out for myself.  

Teres Audio seemed to be the value leader. A complete turntable was too expensive, but the motor could be added to the Basis with only a slight modification for the speed sensor. When this worked out extremely well it gave me the confidence to go for the platter and bearing.  

But what about the plinth? Around this time I was working with DJ Casser and his Black Diamond Racing Shelf. His Shelf material was so much more effective than acrylic, it had to make a better plinth too. After a good deal more planning a BDR Source Shelf was cut into a unique sort of egg shape. Another piece was cut 4” diameter, drilled and tapped to be used as the nut to hold the bearing. Two more pieces about 3 inches in diameter were cut and stacked to make the tone arm mount. Three Round Things with Cones were screwed into the bottom of the plinth. The Miller Carbon was born. http://www.teresaudio.com/fame/40.html



128x128millercarbon
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon OP
12,531 posts
 
northbeach- Terrific idea. If you can make it August 14-15 Rick and Krissy will be here, the whole weekend nothing but listening as we have a bunch of stuff to compare. Vibration control is huge and this will be a beautiful opportunity to get some experienced input, and actually be able to hear for yourself the difference things make. But if not then, any time, for sure.

njkrebs- We are over the moon happy with ours. Have been for some time now. Might be hard to believe but far from the "diminishing returns" CW BS the more we do the more excited we get because the improvements just keep coming and are at least as impressive from this level as they were years ago. 

larry5729-
 I would think the biggest improvement would be to upgrade the cartridge.

The CW again. Patience. We will get there.

There must be a reason why people play vinyl.

There is. It's called music.

artemus_5 - 
I'm often astounded at those who are so sure of themselves that they have no curiosity. And, in turn, they become know it alls who really know very little...all because they limit themselves by their lack curiosity.

Those who have been here enough will know the most common question is "why?" and the most common answer is, "We really don't know." Followed by some say this some say that. All we really know is how it sounds. Sometimes followed by a demonstration of how it sounds. 

That's another thing Mark Baker told me. He is an engineer by training and perfectly capable of designing whatever he needs to do whatever he wants. He told us he has a great new improvement intended for his motor. Then immediately says, "If it works. We have to test it. Lots of times the designs don't work." There's times he has tried a hundred ideas before finding the one that works. Now that's curiosity! 

All the best ones are like that, far as I can tell anyway. 
mglik
908 posts
 
For me, even an entry level TT rig surpasses digital.
Sure the relative SQ is low but the physicality of the vibration of the stylus is an organic sound.
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rauliruegas
13,095 posts
 
Dear @njkreb :  "  I’m just not sure what would constitute an upgrade. "

Weird because in other thread you gave this advise talking of audio room/system:

"" tweak it over time ""

Normally we make a time to time tweak to our audio room/systems and that " tweak " is to find out some kind of improvement that can gives us a better quality listening enjoyment music sessions.
Of course that some times that " tweak " just does not works.

Any MUSIC lover as many of us can enjoy MUSIC listening through a FM station in a tunner " every where " we are.
MUSIC per sé is an art and as an art  wake up human been feelings/emotions and some of us through those tweaks try to achieve a greater enjoyment times.


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
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rauliruegas
13,095 posts
 
Dear @millercarbon :  "" 
There must be a reason why people play vinyl.

There is. It's called music.   ""

Wit all respect not a wise answer even a wrong one reason because MUSIC is the name of the game it does not matters the medium: analog, digital, in a walkman or in your home system.

R.
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon OP
12,531 posts
 
mglik-
 For me, even an entry level TT rig surpasses digital.
Sure the relative SQ is low but the physicality of the vibration of the stylus is an organic sound.

Same here. The story has been told before so was skipped above but the Tehnics SL1700 was in a box in storage for several years- which just happened to be the critical years when CD first came out and replaced LP. So by the time the listening room was being built the assumption was there would be no LP. When Robert Harley said the turntable is the foundation of a high end system it was hard to believe.

But this being RH we had to be sure so the Technics was dug out and hooked up and we were blown away to hear it blow away a much more expensive and modern CDP from California Audio Labs. We in this case being literal not royal, the wife was with blown away as well.

But this was well before the birth of the Miller Carbon. Before even it was conceived. Call it a first date. Just enough to get me hot to go all the way.

Some years after battery power Chris came out with his Verus motor and controller upgrade. The Verus also involved a change from belt to rim drive. This is the motor that can be seen on my system page. It uses a wheel with a notch machined into it, into which an O-ring fits. The motor and feet are designed so the weight of the motor leans the rim drive against the platter.

This works, and is an improvement, but also has all kinds of drawbacks. The main one being O-rings all have a little seam or edge that sticks out right where it touches the platter. The trick is to set the motor up away from the turntable but as if it were being used, only with a piece of fine grit sand paper in place of a platter. Run the motor against the sandpaper like this and after a while it winds up nice and smooth.

Not perfect but a big improvement over the original motor pod setup. Also another opportunity to tweak and compare and learn the impact and influence of every little thing.
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