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Kinki studio EX-M1, EX-M1+ differences... vs Denafrips Hestia/ Hyperion combo?

I've been reading up on some Integrated Amps and Pre-Amp/Amp combos lately but have some questions.

The following is an excerpt from SoundStageHifi:
The original EX-M1 was introduced in 2017. The newly updated EX-M1 — without the “+” — costs $2398 and includes, among other things, changes in the power supply, capacitance, and the volume control, the latter now using a MUSES72320 controller instead of the previous relay-based control. The EX-M1+ is essentially identical to the upgraded EX-M1, but adds a preamp-stage output and a home-theater bypass to entirely bypass the preamp stage.

That last sentence has me a little confused. 
"The EX-M1+ is essentially identical to the upgraded EX-M1" - What is the "upgraded" EX-M1?  Does this mean that the latest version of the EX-M1 has all the updates that they just covered preceding this statement?

The 2nd half of the statement says " but adds a preamp-stage output and a home-theater bypass to entirely bypass the preamp stage." - You'll have to excuse my ignorance.  Does this mean that I can add a pre-amp in the future and use the EX-M1+ as a Power Amp?  Also, does this mean that I cannot add a pre-amp to the EX-M1 (non-plus)?

At this time, I don't have hard to drive speakers, and I don't foresee having something like that anytime soon, so I was also considering the Denafrips Hestia/Hyperion combo.  I haven't seen any reviews comparing these 2 company's offerings... any feedback is appreciated.

jwlaudio
jackd
1,074 posts
 
Not really sure with the M1+ priced at $2895 with free shipping how you are getting anywhere near the price territory of either the Pass or BHK with both at $7250 plus without shipping included.  I own a BHK 250 and even at the old heavily dealer discount prices it wasn't close price wise. Also as I own or have owned an original EX-M1 and the current M1+ and M7 I have a pretty good idea about the house sound after almost four years.  Lean it is not and I have used them with over a half dozen different speakers from Spatial, Verity, Nola, Reynaud, Harbeth and Fritz.
regismc
112 posts
 
jwlaudio, can I ask what speaker you will be using?  Both those products you mentioned, the Pass and PS are nice amps.  If I’m going low power I’m going SET.  So I’d pass on the Pass though I’ve heard the 60wpc sound great with a pair of Ryan’s.  I like the BK amp very much though.
When I mentioned the Kinki as being ‘leaner’ it was in relation to the Denafrips.  All three would be leaner in comparison.  Perhaps I should have simply said more neutral, less warm, cooler.

regismc
112 posts
 
jackd any comparison of Kinki vs PS amp?  I’ve only read about the Kinki stuff.  U certainly roll through a bunch of speakers, nice ones too…
jackd
1,074 posts
 
@regismc 

Two my ears with multiple speakers the Kinki house sound is pretty much neutral and allows the character of the particular speaker in use to set the tone.  Amps that I have owned that were similar were the Nuforce STA-200 and the Job 225, both based on the same circuit design owned by Goldmund.  The BHK is just to the slightly warmer side of neutral and it can be tailored slightly by the choice of input tube.  I have tried Gold Lion, Tungsram, Mullard and Matsushita in it and the sonic character only changed slightly and not by the great lengths i have seen described by others.  Both are great amps but with the BHK you still need to drive it and using a DAC to do it was not for me as I tried it with the DS SR.
regismc
112 posts
 
jackd 

Nice.  I can relate to the small tube rolling and the subtle differences imparted.  I did the same with Amprex and Mullards years ago.  Still use a pr. of Bugle Boys in my EAT Petite phono pre as the Mullards go a bit too soft.  Did you go with the BK preamp in your setup?  After years of going dac direct, I like the Hestia pre also, just a bit more tonal body driving the Hyperion amp.  ‘Sides I like the footprint of the duo.  I’ve got an Athena pre here also, and she’s a beast, big and heavy.  I picked it up from a fella moving to an ARC Ref 6 because he felt the added active drive helped control his speakers woofers better.  It’s ‘almost’ too much in my modest system.  Like moving from the 10th row to the front row.  Added magnification, better separation, bigger soundstage, but the same tonal qualities as its smaller sister.  I’m unsure on weather to get the dac or a larger amp next as I think any step up will force another speaker purchase.  The new Zu Soul’s would be terrific with the top Denafrips gear.  A bargain too!  The endless chase, as really the Denafrips duo, driving the DW’s w/Jupiter caps is a nicely balanced system and I quite like how easily the entry duo makes me forget about the several tube amps I’ve collected.  Are those 6922’s in the BK or ???
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