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Why Aren't More Speaker Designers Building Augmented Widebanders?

Over the years I've owned a number of different speakers - KLH, Cerwin Vega, Polk, Opera Audio, Ars Aures, and Merlin VSM. One thing they all had in common was a crossover point in the 2000 hz (+ or -) range. I've read reviews of speakers where the reviewer claimed to be able to hear the crossover point, manifested as some sort of discontinuity. I've never heard that. My Merlin VSM's for example sounded completely seamless. Yet my new Bache Audio Metro 001 speakers, with a single wideband driver covering the range of 400 hz to 10,000 hz, augmented by a woofer and a super tweeter, sounds different from all of these other speakers. The midrange of the Bache 001's is cleaner, more coherent, more natural than I have heard before. Music flows from the speakers in a more relaxed manner, and subjectively dynamic range is greater, with no etch or brightness, and no loss of resolution compared with the Merlins. I have to conclude that Bache's design has an inherent advantage over more traditional designs with a crossover point or points in the midrange frequencies. I wonder why more speaker designers haven't tried this approach?
cellcbern
cellcbern's avatar
cellcbern OP
61 posts
 
My Bache Audio Metro 001’s are now substantially broken in, and my enthusiasm for them continues to grow. The imaging and sound staging now surpasses what I enjoyed with the Merlin VSM’s, and the midrange, which has opened up since I took delivery of the speakers, is even more clear, tonally dense, and articulate than when I started playing them. While the VSM’s BAM produced bass response down to 35hz, the bass from the Metro-001’s eight inch woofer goes lower, is more tactile, and can be felt as well as heard.  The Heil air motion transformer, used above 10,000 hz gives up little if anything to the Esotar in the VSM. 

I am not qualified to debate the technicalities of speaker design, but I have 40+ years of high end audiophile experience and fairly educated ears. I used the word "coherence" at the start of this thread but perhaps that term is inadequate to describe what I am hearing. To my ears the Metro-001s sound more relaxed, natural, and "all of a piece" than any non-wideband speaker I have heard, including every Thiel loudspeaker I have heard, and I have heard many of the models.
mozartfan
2,143 posts
 
seamless. Yet my new Bache Audio Metro 001 speakers, with a single wideband driver covering the range of 400 hz to 10,000 hz, augmented by a woofer and a super tweeter, sounds different from all of these other speakers. The midrange of the Bache 001's is cleaner, more coherent, more natural than I have heard before. Music flows from the speakers in a more relaxed manner, and subjectively dynamic range is greater, with no etch or brightness, and no loss of resolution compared with the Merlins. I have to conclude that Bache's design has an inherent advantage over more traditional designs with a crossover point or points in the midrange frequencies. I wonder why more speaker designers haven't tried this approach?
cellcbern05-06-2018 9:47am

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Yes sir, 
This is exactly my very same experience of my wide band, assisted with midwoofers/+ tweeter.

Magical and near perfection,,,

Oh sorry to step on the old cliche
**No speaker is perfect**
So sorry,, let me rephrase the Iconic **most Holy* Dogma , nO speaker is perfection..
OK
How s this
*Near perfect as I ever wanta  speaker to sound**. There, not perfectperfect, But as near as I ever hoped.

mozartfan
2,143 posts
 
It's a complex subject, but the point remains that wide band drivers with all the requisite capacities are exceedingly rare, and pretty well all have shortcomings of some sort..

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Agree there are the good wide bands and then there are the poor wide bands. 
Voxativ AC1A rates in the very poor category.

Some DavidLouis are nothing great, while a few of DaviidLouis,, IMHO are the best in the world. 
2nd to none.
These DL's are relatively new and not well known.
I just made the discovery.
My only interest in wide bands are the davidLouis comming from some china lab. 
Germany could take lessons from this chinese speaker tech geek.

mozartfan
2,143 posts
 

seikosha210 posts05-06-2018 1:57pmI thought the exact same thing after I converted to single/wideband driver designs  I think the main reason is the ragged frequency response and the marketing issues this introduces.  Buyers and manufacturers want to be able to justify their products/purchases with impressive specs.  I’m past that, sound first, measurements second.
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Absoluetly
 The only few specs that intere4st me is
Most important
1)  db sensitivity TRUE REAL sens, not fake.
2)  magnet weign, magnet type,. I prefer Neodymium
3)  Cone material, (Sorry german labs, your papyrus paper thin cone just won't do, no bass) I prefer mix paper and wood.

All other specs/charts, graphs are just numbers,,w hich has nothing whatsoever to do with how  a  wide band ACTUALLY sounds in real time

mozartfan
2,143 posts
 

seanheis1460 posts05-06-2018 2:14pmNot many folks realize this, but you can stick a $50 wide band driver on a 48x60 inch piece of plywood (with just a hole cut for the driver) and get mind blowing good sound from a current source amp...and if you use the right driver you can get bass below 50hz that gives a smoother room response than a sealed sub.
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There is another forum where the topic is open baffel
I dont care for OB's.
I get more bass froma  wide band is a small cabinet, small port at bottom.

The DavidLouis 4 incher/mixed paper  in a  small cabinet, puts our rock solid bass down to 80hz. 
Thing ROCKS,,however midrage is a bit stressed, which is why i went with its big brother,, the 6.5.
has bass, but different,a  big less punch, but deeper/softer.
I havea  8 arriving,, I'm hoping to get your 50hz, has a  wood cone,,looks very promising,,Gonna run both 6.5 + 8 incher, like stacked Wide Banders. 

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