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Why Aren't More Speaker Designers Building Augmented Widebanders?

Over the years I've owned a number of different speakers - KLH, Cerwin Vega, Polk, Opera Audio, Ars Aures, and Merlin VSM. One thing they all had in common was a crossover point in the 2000 hz (+ or -) range. I've read reviews of speakers where the reviewer claimed to be able to hear the crossover point, manifested as some sort of discontinuity. I've never heard that. My Merlin VSM's for example sounded completely seamless. Yet my new Bache Audio Metro 001 speakers, with a single wideband driver covering the range of 400 hz to 10,000 hz, augmented by a woofer and a super tweeter, sounds different from all of these other speakers. The midrange of the Bache 001's is cleaner, more coherent, more natural than I have heard before. Music flows from the speakers in a more relaxed manner, and subjectively dynamic range is greater, with no etch or brightness, and no loss of resolution compared with the Merlins. I have to conclude that Bache's design has an inherent advantage over more traditional designs with a crossover point or points in the midrange frequencies. I wonder why more speaker designers haven't tried this approach?
128x128cellcbern
mozartfan
2,143 posts
 

seikosha210 posts05-06-2018 1:57pmI thought the exact same thing after I converted to single/wideband driver designs  I think the main reason is the ragged frequency response and the marketing issues this introduces.  Buyers and manufacturers want to be able to justify their products/purchases with impressive specs.  I’m past that, sound first, measurements second.
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Absoluetly
 The only few specs that intere4st me is
Most important
1)  db sensitivity TRUE REAL sens, not fake.
2)  magnet weign, magnet type,. I prefer Neodymium
3)  Cone material, (Sorry german labs, your papyrus paper thin cone just won't do, no bass) I prefer mix paper and wood.

All other specs/charts, graphs are just numbers,,w hich has nothing whatsoever to do with how  a  wide band ACTUALLY sounds in real time

mozartfan
2,143 posts
 

seanheis1460 posts05-06-2018 2:14pmNot many folks realize this, but you can stick a $50 wide band driver on a 48x60 inch piece of plywood (with just a hole cut for the driver) and get mind blowing good sound from a current source amp...and if you use the right driver you can get bass below 50hz that gives a smoother room response than a sealed sub.
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There is another forum where the topic is open baffel
I dont care for OB's.
I get more bass froma  wide band is a small cabinet, small port at bottom.

The DavidLouis 4 incher/mixed paper  in a  small cabinet, puts our rock solid bass down to 80hz. 
Thing ROCKS,,however midrage is a bit stressed, which is why i went with its big brother,, the 6.5.
has bass, but different,a  big less punch, but deeper/softer.
I havea  8 arriving,, I'm hoping to get your 50hz, has a  wood cone,,looks very promising,,Gonna run both 6.5 + 8 incher, like stacked Wide Banders. 

mozartfan
2,143 posts
 
cellcbern OP55 posts05-07-2018 7:36pmHere is a paragraph excerpted from Laurence Borden's July 2014 review of the earlier Bache 001 for Dagago. I think it gets to the heart of the augmented widebander advantage:


"In a typical 3-way speaker, the crossover point between the midrange and tweeter is typically between 1 and 2 kHz, which is smack-dab in the region to which our ear is most sensitive. No matter how well designed a crossover might be, the tweeter and midrange drivers invariably differ in their dispersion characteristics, transient response, and distortion characteristics. Making matters worse, the crossover often introduces phase shifts. Although these differences are often not recognized per se (except in especially poor implementations), they become apparent when they are absent, as they are in a speaker based on a wideband driver. As implemented in the Bache Audio speakers, the Tangband covers the range from about 100 Hz to about 10,000, or almost seven octaves. Not surprisingly, they are superbly coherent. As a result, music has a wholeness — or oneness, if you prefer — that makes it seem more lifelike. One has a sense of being more relaxed while listening, a trait I find very desirable in a speaker. Not surprisingly, instruments that span many octaves — like the piano — are especially well served, yet all instruments benefit".

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The info in this article correlates exactly  how I am hearing the wide bander response in all forms of music,.
Simply magical.
When I had the Seas Thors over hauled with new tweets/new Mundorf crossovers,,, I was a bit disappointe,, So I ordereda   few cheapo wide abndsers and started experiementing,, Thought I liked what i heard,, One day I placed a  Thor on  one channel, a  wide bander on the  other.
WOW
What a  revelation,. 
Immediaetly I yanked out the new $700 Millennium tweets, listed then on Ebay at 60% off, sold in 2 hours, 
Took that cash and bought a  superior wide bander,, 
The rest is history.. 
My projects have been all 
Wide Banders...
I am near completion.
A wood cone 8 DavidLouis arrives  this week.
Gonna stack both the 6.5 paper mix DavidLouis  with the 8 Wood Cone DavidLouis..
All I can say is
Mr Wilson look out.... there's a  new kid on the block...and he aint playing...
mozartfan
2,143 posts
 
But for me, I've found the strengths of fullrangers/widebanders to outweigh the negatives. YMMV though.


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Honestly,, truthfully, of course its only my opinion..
But frankly, I don't recognize any such weaknesses with my wide banders.
None.
Only ++++'s. 
As in
WinWinWin
mozartfan
2,143 posts
 
But for all another speakers based on wideband with no built in amps, we have to add woofer with crosspoint 500-700 HZ ( Metro-001, Tribeca-001 etc)

Conclusion-- Wideband driver get good ability just to work like midrange with extended freguancy response, and get choice to implement not regular dome tweeter , but supertweeter.


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I think we have the Seas dual W18E001's witha  8.2 rolling off at say 1600hz ish,,87 db,  really low vol especailly at low gain on amp. 
All the W18's are really doing is adding some punch to bass guitar and drums.
Themn i havea   Kasun 3.5 paper cone tweet, has incredible double magnets,, and kicks in witha  2.2 Mundorf cap at say,, 9khz ish, not sure.
91 TRUE REAL db sensitivity. Adds a  bit of sheen.
The  DavidLouis wide band 6.5 yellow cone,,has a  range of  like 80hz ish  through say, 12k+hz ish. 
Has some soft bass and highs NOT rolled off too early,, i real fine lil 6.5er.

My system has never ever sounded so super.
The thing that was missing was the ~~wide bander~~~.
DL 6.5 has a  sensitivity at 91db, REAL TRUE BONIFIDE spec, Not a  big fat lie. 


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