djones51, your point is well taken. I was searching for a musical quality which could be discerned by listeners but not possibly measured by existing guages. “Warmth,” or “brightness,” would have been a better choice than timber. I believe that most of us would agree that state-of-the art instrumentation is insufficient to describe, wholly, the glorious, human experience of music.
Cables that measure the same but (seem?) to sound different
I have been having an extended dialogue with a certain objectivist who continues to insist to me that if two wires measure the same, in a stable acoustic environment, they must sound the same.
In response, I have told him that while I am not an engineer or in audio, I have heard differences in wires while keeping the acoustic environment static. I have told him that Robert Harley, podcasters, YouTuber's such as Tarun, Duncan Hunter and Darren Myers, Hans Beekhuyzen, Paul McGowan have all testified to extensive listening experiments where differences were palpable. My interlocutor has said that either it is the placebo effect, they're shilling for gear or clicks, or they're just deluded.
I've also pointed out that to understand listening experience, we need more than a few measurement; we also need to understand the physiology and psychological of perceptual experience, as well as the interpretation involved. Until those elements are well understood, we cannot even know what, exactly, to measure for. I've also pointed out that for this many people to be shills or delusionaries is a remote chance at best.
QUESTION: Who would you name as among the most learned people in audio, psychoacoustics, engineering, and psychology who argue for the real differences made by interconnects, etc.?
In response, I have told him that while I am not an engineer or in audio, I have heard differences in wires while keeping the acoustic environment static. I have told him that Robert Harley, podcasters, YouTuber's such as Tarun, Duncan Hunter and Darren Myers, Hans Beekhuyzen, Paul McGowan have all testified to extensive listening experiments where differences were palpable. My interlocutor has said that either it is the placebo effect, they're shilling for gear or clicks, or they're just deluded.
I've also pointed out that to understand listening experience, we need more than a few measurement; we also need to understand the physiology and psychological of perceptual experience, as well as the interpretation involved. Until those elements are well understood, we cannot even know what, exactly, to measure for. I've also pointed out that for this many people to be shills or delusionaries is a remote chance at best.
QUESTION: Who would you name as among the most learned people in audio, psychoacoustics, engineering, and psychology who argue for the real differences made by interconnects, etc.?
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@hilde45 - even though the cables "measure the same" they can be vastly different inside
Hope that helps - steve |
I happen to be friendly with Scott Hull owner/chief engineer of https://masterdisk.com/ He states unequivocally that cables sound different. I have sat in the "master's chair" and listened to the system you see in the link above (page down a bit). Regards, barts |
The other side of the coin which I find almost completely nutz is when Paul McGowan states that he heard an amazing difference in the sound of PS Audio's reference system by changing the POWER CORDS that are feeding the Power Plant 20 regenerators that in turn feed the amps. I get lost on this one, I mean if its "regenerating" the power how in the world could a power cord to the device make a difference? Its a given that the original was a properly sized PC. So now, to me, the question becomes "what happens if you were to daisy chain several regenerators together?". And further, what if in the chain you inserted an original PC? As I said I'm lost on this one. Regards, barts |
- 74 posts total