How important is the pre-amp?


Hello all,

Genuine request here for other's experiences.

I get how power amps can make really significant changes to the sound of a system. And of course speakers have an even bigger effect. And then there is the complicated relationship between the speaker and power amp. But I wonder about pre-amps.

In theory a well designed preamp should just act as a source switch and volume control. But does it add (or ruin) magic? Can a pre-amp color the sound? Alter pace and timing? Could you take a great sounding system and spoil it with the wrong preamp? Stereophile once gushed (while reviewing a preamp that cost as much as a car) that the preamp was the heart of the system, setting the tone of everything. Really? Some people don't even bother with a preamp, feeding their DACs straight into the power amp. Others favor passive devices, things without power. If one can get a perfectly good $2K preamp, why bother with 20K?

What your experiences been?
128x128rols
A few comments on the "transformers are the answer" topic.  I agree that especially when you have an impedance mismatch, particularly the wrong way (high into low), that needs **transformation** rather than gain or attenuation (fractional gain),a transformer could be very good.

Its that "could be" part.  They have many issues - several notes above, several not. And like most problems, they can be mostly solved with money, lots of money, and few have attempted it.   No market maybe, or very very hard.   An ideal, variable, volume-controlling transformer must be VERY expensive.

Ditto resistors.  They have issues.  You can buy better ones.  But.... I actually think even modestly good (name brand 1% metal film) resistors are pretty transparent. And with resistors there is a mature market for VERY good ones, and while they too are expensive (like 10-50X the cost of modestly good ones), even at 10-50X they are still less than half a buck (Caddock, DALE mil-spec noise controlled, non-inductively wound, blah blah) or were the last i checked which i admit was years ago.  To be clear, you need a dozen to hundreds of pairs depending on how you implement the solution.  I use 11 pair.  Oh, and a micro-controller  to control the mess.


But look a the big picture: we are now worrying about two more resistors in the signal path, one series one shunt. There are likely dozens in your signal path already. Are you replacing all of those too? Or removing them and inserting.... what?

I firmly believe that for 99% of applications, a true, discrete, stepped attenuator using a minimal number of resistors, great contacts, and good (not awesome) resistors is pretty darn transparent. I can say for sure its revelatory compared to what nearly all of us have heard - and I can do A-B-C side by side tests since i have them all, independent of the preamp circuitry, with a switch to do the rest evaluations.


I firmly believe that for 99% of applications, a true, discrete, stepped attenuator using a minimal number of resistors, great contacts, and good (not awesome) resistors is pretty darn transparent.


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I might have to agree. My tech geek swaers by a good Acoustics (made in Italy) 44 step ateenuator,,but sadly my Jadis DPL has no room for the vol pot..
I’d bet your DIY attenuator + resistors sounds as good/better
as my Jadis DPL with
Mundorf + Philips caps, Takman Rey Metal resistors.
Shorter path = cleaner path...
  Am I following you right.
For just 1 added component, saya  CD player, we only need 1 out
So you are saying a simple DIY 44 step attenuator + some resistiors, = beats high priced pres?
Yes??

as far as volume attenuation, easily the best i’ve heard is on the battery powered darTZeel NHB-18NS; there is no potentiometer or resistor network in line with the audio, volume control being by passive attenuation governed by a dedicated processor via analogue optical couplers, offering 192 steps in increments of 0.5dB.

it is truly transparent, yet dynamically alive. alas, it does run $50k.

i've compared it with other active preamps, as well as the MSB Select II passive, and the Placette Remote Volume Control passive. so far it's my preference to any of those.
For just 1 added component, saya CD player, we only need 1 out
So you are saying a simple DIY 44 step attenuator + some resistiors, = beats high priced pres?
Yes??
Well....sorta. Mine is intended to go into volume production in products so it s a bit more complex. It was never intended to be independent from a preamp or integrated amp, and i have never used it stand-alone.  Mine involves 4 inputs, 32 x 2dB steps, a bunch of relays (not cheap if you want good ones to control all this stuff and get you down from 128 to say 44 resistors) a display, a micro-controller, an IR receiver, and a TON of code. The code is a big challenge - especially controlling the IR, synchronizing actions, displaying where you are, etc. but the results, yes, are clearly superior to my monolithic ladder chip solution (also intended for volume production, in fact sooner) and that is superior to an ALPS or Nobel POT (IMO).


You will also have to design and fab some fairly complex mixed analog and digital circuit boards.


A project like this is not for the feint of heart.

There is a dutch guy selling a complete attenuator kit (two units, dual mono i believe).   I think his are intended to go into an amp, but you could build a box and a power supply.  No balance to the best of my knowledge (which, along with mute, is a logical nightmare BTW since both are stateful and you don’t want to swap states wrong). 


For DIY i’d look at the Dutch kit. I suspect his day job is with Philips. Can’t recall his name, Google is your friend. I really wanted remote control that was as good as the best rotary pots. I suspected they could be better (even the monolithic ones) and they are. See my post way way above.