Krell K-300i (with its optional DAC) vs. McIntosh MA7200 (with DA1) vs. ? (including DAC)

@verdantaudio, yes, that is certainly solid advice! I’m using the Marantz as a transport now with the MAC’s DA1 DAC (Pangea interconnects). What I’m finding is the DA1 might be just a hair "better" than the Marantz (e.g. tiny bit more bass extension... smoother frequency response overall... ?). However, a more objective pair of ears (i.e. my wife) really doesn’t notice any difference. Fact of the matter is, I listen more to vinyl than CD. Regardless, any suggestions for an external DAC? I’ve read some about Chord DAC’s.

I’ve spent quality time with Focal Aria 926 and 936, powered by my amp and amplification similar to it. I loved the 936!

I’ve done a fair amount of reading on Hegel amps and read some reviews by professionals my ears tend to agree with but I’ve never heard any. Certainly can’t argue with "clean, clear, accurate and powerful", provided something like this is properly paired with appropriate speakers! For example, I’ve always really, really liked Dynaudio speakers and have always been very impressed by them. However, I’ve always found other speakers I enjoyed just a tad more in the final result. I think my ears tend to find the Dynaudio sound signature just too darned accurate & flat (good flat) and there is certainly nothing wrong with that! Quite the opposite, as a matter or fact. There’s a lot right with that! However, my ears can never seem to fall in love with them. My ears are so fickle!

Not familiar with AVM amps and haven’t done much, if any, reading about them. Also never heard of Perlisten speakers. You’ve given me some homework. I’ll have to check this out. Thanks!

@yyzsantabarbara, thanks for that review! I had already read it. Your tip compelled me to read it again. Much appreciated!

@bigtex22, yes; by all means, let us know how you make out with speaker placement after everything is seasoned or broken-in. That would certainly be useful information! I'd especially be interested in whether or not you felt the need to spike them or do anything else other than just placement.

ENJOY!  

oldaudiophile,

I can add my commentary. I own the Revel 228be with two subs and McIntosh MC462. 

I demoed the Sonus Faber Olympica III and Nova 3 a number of times. On Classe’ Delta gear and Musical fidelity. They were about 36” off the front well when I heard them. 


Anyway I would not chase McIntosh gear as my first move or electronics honestly. Mac to Mac sounds somewhat the same.  The better ones are of course better… but I would switch out your speakers. Ask yourself what are you looking for and will a better integrated do that and in what magnitude?


The Performa3 F206 really lacks bass extension and needs subs in a bad way. Pushing them 39” or less (from driver face) from the wall could help. The F206 is a very good speaker other than bass depth. A good sub system could take it to a whole other level. 

The Olympica III/Nova are very enjoyable speakers. Changing out from the revel 206 will get you more bass (both deeper and more of it) and just a totally different sound. They are a touch warm at 80-100hz, a touch rolled down at 2-4K and a touch tipped up at 10k to my ear. Very subtle and tasteful tuning. So a bit tuned and very enjoyable. Technicalities are not better than the revel (soundstage, detail etc) just a different tuning. I would have bought the Olympica III Nova if it had real grills but I have two young kids. I favor a neutral tuning. There are a few used pairs of Olympica’s on here that have been for sale awhile. They would be worth looking at. 

Moving up the Revel line will get you more than you might think over the 206. The highs on the 328be are the best I have heard. The mids on the 228be/328be are outstanding. Very natural and they pop out In the soundstage while still having a super flat frequency response. They sound very clean and can play crazy loud. 

Another speaker worth looking at would be used Wilson Sabrina’s. They sound a lot like the Olympica III but have a bit more bass impact and the mids are a little more forward (pull or minus depending on taste). The mids sound more sibilant and stressed on the Sabrinas than the Sonus Faber but take that comment with a gain of salt. The Sabrina is also tuned to sit close to the wall (quick bass roll off brought up by room gain).  

As a side note the Classe’ Delt amp and pre is great. Pricy but very good. Warm and with a powerful sound. 

I would post in the amp forum to see what people felt they gained climbing the mac line. I have hear most of the line but never in direct comparison of each other. Mac’s newest line C1100/C53 preamps and MC462/MC611 amps are pretty great but the lower end integrated seemed pretty average to me. Not sure if the 8900 would have the same magic as the highend separates. Maybe it does.  

@james633, NICE TOYS! Thanks for the feedback & guidance! Always  appreciated!

Although my sound room (i.e. living room) is fairly good size (i.e. 14' X 23'), for reasons I won't bore you with here, I'm forced to contend with somewhat challenging placement issues. Basically, my system is set up at on end of that space, which is really about 14' X 9' with a right channel corner placement issue and a left channel with a rather large opening behind it (4') to the kitchen/dinning room. It's kind of an open floor plan in a post & beam log home. Good acoustics but sandwiched space. Re-arranging the entire living room would be the way to go but that's not an option. As such, I can't accommodate big speakers or speakers that need to be placed far out into the room (e.g. no more than about 2.5' to 3' from wall behind to baffle) or separated by more than 6 or 7 feet, max. Also, they'd have to be skinny (e.g. no wider than about 9 to 11 inches, max).  The speakers I've read about sophisticated enough to handle this cost about as much as a compact car. In my next life, I'll buy or build a home with a more flexible sound room or man cave.

I have to respectfully disagree with you about the F206 lacking bass extension and response, at least compared to the 18 different pairs of speakers I did serious seat-time with for that upgrade. I haven't measured but, in my room, I'm confident I'm getting an honest 40 Hz and likely a little more. There were speakers I demoed that were noticeably a bit "better" but all of them either needed more juice than my MAC MA5200 and/or were more expensive. I'm certain my room acoustics and most of the music I like to listen are why I'm so satisfied with the F206. They actually sound better in my room than they did in a very good sound room at the audio shop I demoed them in. A friend I was with, at the time, agrees and he is a bona fide multi-channel home theater, self-admitted bass head. I've got my F206 32" from a sheetrock wall in back of them to their baffles and separated by just under 6' (on-center driver to driver).  That's not optimum, I know, but the best I can do in my room. If I listened to a lot more bass-heavy material and had room for a sub or a multi-channel home theater system, I'm sure I'd agree with you about their bass response. When it comes to that, I'm much less fond of reach and much more partial to accuracy and tightness. Judging from the equipment you have, I'm guessing your are, too. During my last speaker shopping expedition, the best I heard was a pair of traded in Aerial Acoustics 6T powered by a MAC MC275 stack. A pair of Triangle Australe EZ powered by the same MAC stack impressed, as well, but I'm convinced there was something wrong with those trade-ins because of how they dramatically failed with male and female vocals. With musical instruments, they were fantastic! With vocals, however,... well, there just had to be something wrong with that pair. Even the sales person admitted he heard it, too. He tried playing with room placement but nothing helped. Aerial Acoustics 6T or, better yet, the 7t, would be an interesting consideration but not with a MAC MA5200. Those babies just need more juice to shine.   

I hear what you're saying about just an amp upgrade yielding only subtle improvement and suspect you are absolutely right about this. Hence, my reticence in this regard.

With respect to a speaker upgrade with the amplification I have now AND the room placement constraints I have to contend with, those I've read about that could possibly deliver the goods cost about as much as an average compact car.

I have a question for you about your 228be. Too big for my room but I'm interested in Beryllium tweeters. Where is the sweet spot or listening position in your sound room? Specifically, how much empty space is there behind it, if any. I've never done serious seat-time with Beryllium tweeters and I'm wondering if they might, in any way, sound like AMT designs. In my experience, going as far back as the original ESS AMT, speakers with AMT tweeters sound best when the sweet spot has plenty of empty space behind it (e.g. at least 6' and, preferably, more). Otherwise, they can become quickly fatiguing. This is yet another room placement issue I have to deal with. My sweet spot, the couch, puts my ears 9' away from the speakers, around 36 to 38 inches off the floor, depending upon how much I slouch, and there is a 7" solid log wall right behind it. Sorry to get so technical but that's the kind of mind I have. It's a curse!