B&W Matrix 801 Series II

Wemfan,

W/out going into to much detail, in order to make the speakers more mobile, the crossovers where cramed to fit into bottom of the speakers. Because of this resulted in compromises in parts quality, inductor crosstalk, and rather small iron core coils that saturated too quickly, resulting in decreases in dynamics & bass quality.

The NC crossovers simply replicated B&W's specs, but w/ high grade parts, a more spacious layout, and a huge copper air coil. It also bypasses the overload circuit, which also compromised sound quality.

As I said before, I could live happily w/ the speakers as stock. The NC crossovers, and other mentioned tweaks make a great speaker that much better. As an aside, I powered these with a 150W amp for years before upgrading. The great thing w/ 1st class speakers is that as you upgrade whats in front of the chain, everything just sounds better.

Dave 72- I believe the S3 crossover simplified the topology, used better crossover coils, eliminated the Zobel network across the woofer, & eliminated the APOC protection. Also, I think the S3 tweeter was ferro-fluid filled, whereas the S2 tweeter was not. Am unsure whater the firbercrete mid-tweet unit remained removable or not.

Cheers!

Elee,

The northcreek crossovers are $2100 a pair. That was a surprise. There is a lesser way to go but it is still $799. That is a pretty sizable investment in a pair of $2000 speakers. How much did the crossovers improve your speakers? I am thinking of making an offer on them early next week.

Hi Elee,

Thanks for the info. Would you say then that the S3 is the better speaker?

Wemfan-
All I can say is that after I got the crossovers, I was satisfied. Was the difference night & day, no, more like dusk & day. If I'm not mistaken, isn't there a return option on the Northcreeks if you are not satisfied? It was like removing an semi-translucent veil.

Like I said, I would be happy w/ the stock speakers. If you haven't already, do yourself a favor & read the Stereophile review, including the follow up, which states that even years after the original, the speakers were equivalent to speakers costing up to $13,000. That was in the mid-90s. I'd venture you would have to spend more than that now to get something equivalent. The JBL L300 from only a few years before the 801 S2, is currently selling for MORE than what they cost back then. Even at a cost of around 4K(including the NC's), I think you would be hard pressed,to find something new that is equally transparent and is truly full range ( ie reaches down to 20Hz).

If you get these and are ultimately not happy, you could probably turn around & sell them for not much loss. I can say that I thought long & hard before getting the NC crossovers. I scoured the net & read up on all the discussions I could find. I did not find anyone that had aquired the NC's that were dis-satisfied. It was also my impression that there are an equal number of people who acquired the 801s used who did not bother to get the crossovers & were perfectly happy.

Elee and Linnlp12 thanks for sharing impressions. that was interesting reading.

Elee

I think the S3 tweeter was ferro-fluid filled

Yes - and it was technology brought in from success with the matrix 800 - It is the main reason the protection circuits were no longer needed and removed from the S2.

Linnlp12 - congrats on those ARC amps. I would be very interested in your impressions on using the 4 ohm taps.

Wemfan
I have several amps but none large enough to properly power the speakers....another consideration. My friend at the stereo shop suggests at least 350 watts per side.

The speakers are rated 50 - 600 wpc at 8 ohms. From my experiences what actual wattages are needed from a capable amp will be based on size of space, how close you will be sitting to them, the kind of music genre you will be playing, and how loud.

Wemfan - can you tell us what kind of music, and how loud it will be from your sitting distance ?

Here is the speaker impedance graph for the 801 matrix from B&W.

801 Matrix Impedance graph

If anyone contacts them at support@bowers-wilkins.com, they will send you this same graph.

Note the 4 ohm symbol on the left and frequencies on the bottom.

You can see the lowest they dip is just around 5 ohms and they do this at these frequencies.

HZ - 20, 60-100, 500, 10k and above.

So they need an amp that is 4 ohm capable (stable and powerful) in the low frequencies and high frequencies.

My experiences using maybe 8 or 9 amps ? over the last 20 years are they are a fairly easy load as long as the amp can do 4 ohms SS or Tube. You will get sound and they will go loud. But how good it will sound (smooth and musical) in the high frequencies is where the quality of the power comes especially with SS.

(i.e.) I ran with Brystons 4nrbs years ago. Great bass but the HF had me running out the door. I would have liked for the Brystons to work out as I live 40 mins from the factory.

The Classe amps (another Canadian) - very tubey sounding for SS. But lighter in the bass. Big improvement over the Bryston in the midrange and HF but not the bass.

I find when we read specs on amps they always list the 8 ohm nominal figure. Some do not list 4 ohms or 2 ohms. Ensure the wattage doubles down from 8 ohms for a SS amp and ensure the tube amp/s have a 4 ohm tap or are capable at 4 ohms - ask the manufacturer - if considering for these speakers.

Happy listening

Cheers