B&W Matrix 801 Series II
Boats never crossed my mind. Hi Tls49 - here is what gave me "Outboard" on my mind What better place to share a great boat motor deal than on an audio speaker forum ? I bought one yesterday and the audio repercussions for my dealer are I won't be pouncing on that DAC I have been eyeing. Wemfan - sorry for my off topic post. |
Wemfan- Glad the purchase has worked out for you. Price you paid was good. Until you decide to get the Sound Anchor Stands (the 801S2 differs from the 801S3), I would suggest dialing in the position of the speakers first, perhaps waiting until you get an amp that matches up well. When you have dialed in the position, I would suggest that you try the speakers with the spikes ( there are holes in the bottom of the cabinet. The stainless steel spikes came with the speakers when I bought mine new). If you didn't get them, they are available on ebay occasionally. This way , you can tell if there is any difference in sound, although the Sound Anchor stands are the way to go. Regarding the NC crossover upgrade, I would probably wait a while. IMHO, they make a difference, but again, it is a shade difference, not a primary color difference. Remember that you do have to cut the connection to the original crossovers to connect to the NC's, plus you are eliminating the tweeter protection circuit. I left the originals in the bottom of the cabinet, and the wires to the NC's crossovers are coming out from the bottom of the speakers. This way, the original XOver can be re-connected if there ever is a need. In the years I have had these speakers, the APOC protection circuit has only cut in 2 times, both times w/ the standard CD issue of Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon, on the cut with the alarm clocks (I was probably listening at about 85-90 dbs). On that CD issue, at least, there was clear distortion in the audio. At this time, I was using a Yamaha M-80 power amp, which was supposedly Class A/AB. This is the interesting part. The specs for the amp were 250W into 8 ohms, 330W into 4 ohms. Bought the amp new, and the amp got fried within 4 years. Then I upgraded to the Krell-KAV150, which ONLY put out 150W. The Krell ( remember that this is Krell's budget line, way inferior to the FPB high end line at the time) CLEARLY blew away the Yamaha in terms of delicacy, warmth, slam, and a sense of unrestrained power. As an aside, while researching a replacement amp for the Yamaha, I inserted an old SAE Mark XXXIB amp into the chain, which is only rated at 50Wpc. Surprisingly, aside from a little bit of harshness, and a reduction in the the sense of front to back depth of filed,the SAE held its own. Cheers |
Ct0517, congrats on your great deal for the other hobby. Wemfan, congrats on your great deal for the 801's. As I stated previously, some years ago I had 802's S3. At this time, I was working at a B&W dealer, and we always had 801 S3 on display. The premium amp brand was Threshold/Forte that matched extremely well with the B&W. The "E" series Threshold were the last ones designed by Nelson Pass, and are the most desirable. They rarely come up for sale, and sell quickly unless priced too high. The Forte was a less expensive line by Threshold but still had the same sound character. I have no affiliation with this seller, but IMHO this amp would sound extremely well on your 801's, with the power of the Parasound, but character more like the MC275. Forte Model 3 The amp has also been serviced about 2 years ago by Jon Soderberg, who worked with Nelson Pass at Threshold. The amp can definitely hold it's own with amps costing much more. As far as more expensive, a lot of people seem to like McIntosh SS or Pass Labs with B&W. |
****The speakers are rated 50 - 600 wpc at 8 ohms. From my experiences what actual wattages are needed from a capable amp will be based on size of space, how close you will be sitting to them, the kind of music genre you will be playing, and how loud. **** - Ct0517 ****I recently acquired a Parasound Halo A31 (250 watts per channel) for a system in a bedroom and hadn't heard it yet. The difference between this amp and the MAC with the B&Ws was really huge. Of course, the Parasound added a bunch of really good tight bass slam as you would expect but the little MAC was no slouch in the bass department either. What really surprised me was playing Patti Griffin in a very laid back acoustic track was how much more definition and clarity the MAC had over the Parasound through the B&Ws. The Parasound was also a little muddy. It is a $3k amp and really not up to what I would want to run through these speakers. I was surprised comparing these amps through the 801s. You could go out and have a cup of coffee and come back and you would have no trouble telling which amp was playing. They sounded that different from each other. **** - Wemfan Personally, I would not get hung up on the wattage only; within reason, of course, since you do seem to like your music fairly loud. IMO, the above comments demonstrate that to a significant extent that is not what will guarantee satisfying results. You seem to have a clear sense of what qualities you are looking for in the sound of the system and you mentioned that you are a musician. Being a musician you are probably very sensitive to things like subtle instrumental texture, micro dynamics and the kind of tonal fullness that is not always heard from many audiophile rigs; this is not meant to slight audiophiles, but is simply about priorities. Some really good amplifier suggestions so far. But, IMO, short of the very best, solid state amplification does not excel in the areas mentioned to the degree that decent tube amps do. But, given your listening habits and your speakers I think you will need some significant wattage. One amplifier that comes to mind for your 801's that comes up used fairly regularly and for a very reasonable price is the VTL 300 mono; lots of power and good bass control with the classic tube attributes. When you say that the Mac "simply doesn't have enough horsepower" is it a borderline case or not even in the ballpark? You describe bass and drums as incredible with the Mac; you seem to really like the sound. Have you considered adding a second Mc275 in a vertical biamp arrangement? Might be enough power and guarantees the sound you already like and probably a refinement of that. Good luck. |
I agree that a second MC275 might be an option, however, it should be identical to the one you currently have. Looking at the Berners McIntosh Site, you can see that there are 9 different versions of the MC275. While some may sound the same, it is well known that some do sound different, especially the original. Also, it would be best to use them configured as mono, and not vertical bi-amp. With the woofer being the most demanding for power, it makes better sense to have 150w on the entire speaker, than to have 75w on the woofer and another 75w on the midrange/tweeter separately. When bi-amping, it is generally recommended to use an active external crossover bypassing internal crossover, which complicates things even more. IMHO, since you have just acquired the speakers, it would be best to keep things simple for a while in trying to achieve some system synergy. I agree with others that crossover mods should be on the back burner. Did you ever say what preamp you are using with the MC275? |
