B&W Matrix 801 Series II

****A low powered tube amp is not the place to look for these speakers so I am considering a much larger power SS amp. Maybe I should be considering tube? I don't know. Anyway, don't be shy. Tell me what you think.****

OK, I won't be shy, and in doing so I obviously show my own biases; so keep that in mind.

I still don't understand why you make the leap to assuming that, while preferring the sound with the Mac, simply because the Mac doesn't have enough power ("not even in the ballpark"), you need to go to a ss amp. I think that the pertinent questions and answers are found in one of your previous comments:

****Frogman, The MAC did sound much better to me. The Parasound is just not as quality of an amp as the MAC. It has nothing to do with SS VS tubes.
I like tube amps but I also like SS in audio. I am just thinking along ss state lines partially because of power ( more headroom, etc.) but maybe I am wrong? When I said I was a tube guy it was in reference to guitar amps which is a whole different world than stereo gear.****

I would not assume that it has nothing to do with SS vs tubes. I think it has everything to do with that. Here's why, and I will try to give you some background for why I am saying that:

I am very familiar with the sound of your Mac amp. I recently almost killed a friend for trading in a pair of them and his C20 tube pre to a local dealer for a Mac ss integrated which we both now agree doesn't sound nearly as good, but is convenient as hell and is "new". I also had this same friend's Levinson 23.5 amp for a few days which I almost bought; but didn't, since the experience served to, once again, show me that it really is an apples/oranges comparison (ss/tube-Levinson/Manley). I have also heard my Manleys in his system replacing the Macs.

I don't know the sound of the Parasound, but I just read several on-line reviews of it (for whatever that is worth) and it appears to be fairly well regarded for its sound; one reviewer compares it to a Krell and a Levinson both in the $10,000 range and claims that the Parasound can hold its own. Now, I have owned enough ss and tube amps over the years to know that this type of review can only tell you so much. However, the conclusion that I can come to with a fair amount of certainty (for me) and based on my experiences is that both your Mac and the Parasound are, in fact, roughly of equal quality compared to the best of each respective technology (tube/ss). So, IMO, it is not true that the "Parasound is just not the same quality as the Mac". I would say that they are and what you are hearing is, in fact, the intrinsic differences between ss and tubes. Differences that will be there even as you move up the quality ladder to more expensive amps. So, since you can get more than enough power with a more powerful tube amp, then why go to ss? IMO, and in spite of all the claims that the two technologies are getting closer and closer sound wise (they are), there are still certain differences in how each technology reproduces music that will be there no matter how much you spend. You have to pick your poison. And, BTW, if you like tube guitar amps because of their sound, there are definitely parallels to the issue of their sound in stereo playback.

Here is what I would do, and I am now going to contradict my earlier comments about the musician thing (and apologies again for that). First, you have to level the playing field. You have two amps of (IMO) roughly equal quality; one ss and one tube. You need to use both with speakers on which the difference in POWER will be fairly insignificant due to the speaker's efficiency: the Klipschorns. Then spend time with each amp on the K's and work on your music and pay attention to not only how long it takes you to learn certain songs or guitar solos; and, just as importantly how much fun you are having doing so. Does one amp seem to facilitate the process? Does one amp let you hear some subtle expressive quality in a guitar player's phrasing that the other amp obscures? Don't rush the process and switch back and forth between the two amps on the K's. I believe that after a short time certain patterns will start to reveal themselves and one amp will reveal itself as superior; and which technology is better FOR YOU. Good luck.

CT0517, I never do anything the same way twice. I also listen to a large variety of music which is constantly changing. I listen while I work in the studio moving around to different areas of the room. I listen loud, I listen not so loud. There is no average with me. I go through periods where I listen a lot and periods where I don't. I never warm up my equipment. I walk in,flip a switch, listen for who knows how long, shut everything off then leave. There is no usual with me. I usually have 3 different stereos set up at the same time.

Frogman, I said this particular Parasound is not as good as the MAC. This Parasound is around $2000 new in stereo ( mine is the three channel) while the MC275 is close to $5000 new. I don't think that is comparing apples to apples. In general I lean towards tubes but with these low sensitive speakers I am also considering SS. I may start a thread on the amp forum and see what the guys who frequent there suggest. I need a good match for the B&Ws and I am not sure what that is. Hopefully it will become clear eventually.

Dave, I like what I have read about the Pass amps and i like the way they look. They are darned expensive, though. If I go SS I will be looking at the Pass amps. I will call the guy Ct0517 suggested and talk to him first.

Hi Wemfan

Due to your large room and the following comments.

I never do anything the same way twice. I also listen to a large variety of music which is constantly changing. I listen while I work in the studio moving around to different areas of the room. I listen loud, I listen not so loud. There is no average with me. I go through periods where I listen a lot and periods where I don't. I never warm up my equipment.

I have found that with both tubes and SS a warm up helps. My tube pre-amp absolutely needs minimum one hour warm up. Says so right in the manual too.

Don't hold back tell me what you think I should do.

Acquire a High Pass BAF as it will free "whatever" amp you get from subsonic frequencies. Eliminate woofer pumping. This will lower distortion and make the window of music clearer. It will also boost the lows as designed and give you tonal balance. This is more noticeable with SS I have found.

I need a good match for the B&Ws and I am not sure what that is.

I listen while I work in the studio moving around to different areas of the room. I listen loud

Lets first understand I have made my 801 s3 that I have owned for going on 20 years soon work really great with tubes (PP and special OTL) but not in a room your size; and SS in both smaller and larger rooms.
For a plug and play approach I am going back to recommending an already recapped Krell amp/s and this is the reason to cut to the chase.
Its a fact. - that the older Krell stuff has synergy with the Matrix 800 Series Line.
So much so that they - KRELL - produced their own High Pass BAF for the Matrix line as discussed here.
They actually also produced a Krell version of crossovers to run with the four separate cross over drivers on the 800 matrix as well.
This holds a lot of weight for me.
They understood how the speakers work and were meant to be run.
So they are ONE option.

Lets finish with an analogy.

Lets imagine you work for a boss that loves his wine, a serious wine connoisseur.
He has invited you to his house for a wine tasting party, and asked that you bring a favorite bottle of wine.
Now lets assume you do have the occasional glass of wine; but you are a beer drinker yourself.
So your knowledge of wines is limited leaving you feeling a little unsure.
You find out from a co-worker that your boss really loves his red wine;
but also learn that his lovely wife prefers white wine.
What do you bring over ?

Easy - You bring over a bottle of red and a bottle of white.

Where am I going with this? Well you said earlier.

How about the $10000-$12000 range.

So another consideration with a $10k budget. A $5000 (ss ) amp now and another $5000 (tube) amp later.

Remember to keep this fun, hope this helps and enjoy the journey.
The Krell 600 will make your socks roll up and down in your studio - no matter where you are located in it.
Whatever amp you choose it needs to become the alpha over the woofers for best sonics in a room that large.
It needs to have total control - this means it needs to stay in cruise mode for its capabilities on the peaks.
Not approaching limits.

Ok cool, Wemfan, you're on the right path.

Very good post, Ct0517. You have me again thinking about those local Krell 350mcx monos. I can bring them home for a test drive and I will look up the Krell 600 as soon as I finish this post. What tube pre do you suggest for the Krell amps?

I will acquire the BAF filter as soon as I can locate one. Thanks for stressing the importance of it.

I will keep it fun and I am enjoying learning something about audio. I have acquired several new pieces lately and I am enjoying it all. Adding the two Mac pieces increased the quality of my system dramatically. I am taking some good steps forward and enjoying every minute of it. I really do appreciate everyones input. It is a bit hard for someone as ignorant about audio equipment as i am but I am getting better. It is starting to sort out for me. I am getting familiar with some of the gear out there. Now, to look up that Krell 600...