Have you moved away from full range to standmount speakers + subs?


I want to know if you have been on a journey moving from a large full range speaker to a smaller one paired wit subs, maybe even four subs.


Maybe you moved away from the big speakers because you had too much bass or you got a better soundstage from the smaller speakers. Let me know what motivated you and if you think it’s better now.


My motivation for wanting to try smaller speakers.


I have the Tekton DI and until a month ago I was using a LM845P SET amp to drive them.

It only sounded good on simple jazz and vocals but on complex music everything was falling apart.

I am not playing loud but I think it was the low 2 ohm load in the midrange that made the LM break down.


I bought a used PS Audio BHK250 and pre and it was like getting new speakers. Never ever had it occurred to me that speaker and amp matching could have such a profound effect.


So I am enjoying my speakers now and listen to music I have avoided like the plague and enjoying it (:


But all of this got me thinking, what if I paired my LM845P with an easy to drive speaker and paired it with some subs?


Then the LM845 could do what it's best at, playing glorious midrange and the subs could play the bass.

So that's my motivation for trying smaller speakers.


I am also hoping that maybe I could get better and more even bass with 2 or 4 subs. Maybe a better soundstage because the small speakers have a very small baffle.

martin-andersen
So...I moved from Infinty Kappa 8.1s to Revel Performa 3 M105 with a Sunfire sub almost 10 years ago. The Infinity’s were a miserable load with a min 1.7ohm impedance and were hard to place. Not to mention, a bit bright with the EMIT-R Super tweeter.

The Revels were a breath of fresh air. Not only were they less bright, they were easier to drive and place. In terms of actual floor space, the Revels were similar in footprint to the Kappas but they were visually far less dominant.

They were not the be-all-end-all in terms of speaker but I didn’t need my room to revolve around the speakers to get a great image with enjoyable music and actual out-of-pocket costs adjusted for inflation were about the same between the Kappas and Revel Sunfire Combo.

I run monitors at home with the exception of the very modestly sized Vivid Kaya 45s. I have gone on to design DIY stand mounts and now have stand-mounts in commercial production (Verdant Audio) due to a general struggle to find a stand-mount I like much better than the Revels about 4 years ago.

The thing is, a properly designed stand-mount with a subwoofer can be more flexible than a floorstanding speaker and sound darn close to as good. There are a million caveats in terms of sub integration, etc... but at a root level it is true.

There are many factors at play

One is the aesthetics of a stand mount and the fact that they are often, less dominant in a space compared to a floor stander despite similar space requirements. My wife cares very much about this and is a driving factor in my speaker choice at home.

Second, is that in many untreated rooms, the optimal placement for bass and treble reproduction is different. Treatments can and do fix this but often create aesthetic issues. Again, my wife has made it abundantly clear that acoustic treatments are not an option. So, it actually works in my favor to have bass separated.

Regarding driving the amps, especially with lower wattage amps, poor bass response actually works in your favor as well. Often, peak volume output during a musical composition will be in the sub 60hz range. I run 45w tube amps with monitors that roll off at about 60hz at Audio Shows. I can drive them to 85-90dB all day. The key is looking at impedance and try and find a monitor that has a relatively high, minimum impedance. Mine have a min impedance of 7.3 ohms so they are a very easy load for my amps.

In the end you want to pick a speaker that is right for you and your room. If you have limitations like I do in terms of aesthetics, stand mounts are a must. If you have a dedicated room where you can modify the look any way you like, it is large enough, then a floor stander might be best.

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Horses for courses. Little monitors in big rooms will likely never sound 'right' with regard to image size. Big JBLs, Vintage Altec 604s, or Klipsch Horns will simply be overbearing in a bedroom. 
The dynamic linearity (ratio of change in input to change in output) of a small speaker will always be limited by the simple physics, but within their capabilities, it's a non-issue. If you listen at 6ft, you need 6dB (4X) less amp than listening at 12 ft. Inverse square law. Conversely, listening at 12 ft you also need a speaker with 6dB more headroom, which the small speaker simply can't deliver.  

The point is speakers are part of a system that includes the room and is guided by physical laws. Discussing a single component out of the context of the entire system is kinda pointless. Stand mounted speakers are generally intended for smaller spaces, large floor-standing speakers for larger spaces. Adding a subwoofer extends LF range and dynamics for the lower couple of octaves, but the capabilities of the stand mount above ~80Hz are pretty much the same. 
@douglas_schroeder --

... Better big tower speakers make nearly all bookshelf/monitor speakers sound wanting, especially if they do not have a subwoofer(s) associated. One of the most telling characteristics of larger speakers is their ability to create a sense of scale that smaller speakers cannot.

I very much agree on the above, but below quoted sentiment of yours strikes me as peculiarly "heated."

I use the Legacy Audio i.V4 Ultra Amplifier following the review at Dagogo.com on all speakers, even the very efficient PureAudioProject Quintet15 Horn (reviewed). You bet I put 600wpc on that speaker because it seems like a completely different experience than some pissy 100W tube amp. I have zero interest in such pathetic amplification, which is also noisier than the Legacy amp. Want a downgraded experience? Feel free to go that route. Lower power tube lovers think they’re genius, but they are hearing insipid sound. Whatever.

Sufficient amp power, not only as a measure of stated wattage, is very much dependent on overall speaker load and not least efficiency. Take +100dB all-horn speakers, 16 ohm load and relatively benign phase angle behavior even, and 15 watts + brute power supply SET's can make 'em sound beastly and beautiful indeed. Subs I'd pair with powerful high wattage SS amps in any case.  

I'm very much for the importance of headroom and amps being less affected by speaker load, also saying that on principle I don't disagree with you on the importance of having (more than) enough amp power at hand, but make your setup an active one and the relative importance of amp quality is somewhat lessened seeing directly into into each driver segment without the interference of a passive cross-over. Practically speaking this (i.e.: passive configuration) is, in my mind, the foremost reason for amps sounding different, and close to the only thing that partially validates ridiculously over-build amps costing upwards of smaller houses. 

My own fully actively driven speaker setup has more than 2,5kW in total (divided over 3 amps) with a speaker sensitivity ranging from 97dB to 111dB's, by no means anemic, but I've heard low SET-powered and passively configured all-horn setups sounding anything but malnourished as well, so I guess it goes to show.  
I have both. I swap them out to keep things interesting and love both the set ups. IME, the monitors do a more precise imaging. I went through quite a few monitors and the difference is substantial in relation to the sound stage and imaging. Enjoy the ride!