B&W Matrix 801 Series II

First off Chris I apologize for calling you Tim. Sorry....

Thanks, Dave.

I can keep the amps really as long as I would like. I took them back today but my friend says for me to keep them a while.

My review..

These monos really are incredible. They sound really, really good. I am very surprised by how good they are. I have spent the last several days listening and comparing and I am just really impressed. Blown away by how good they sound. Of course, the low end nears perfection but these amps sound good all the way up as well. The Parasound just isn't even in the ballpark but we are talking a $2k amp compared to a $12k amp. The Parasound is currently on bedroom theater duty and does fine for that. I was surprised comparing the MC275 with the 350mcx. On the B&Ws the MC275 just doesn't have enough horsepower so dynamics and slam are diminished. It still has a small edge in the vocal range but overall the Krell is just a better amp to use with the B&Ws. However, on the Khorns it was the other way around the tube Mac came out on top. So, i guess there is a lot to this "synergy" talk I have been running into. Of the best two combinations 275&Mac VS. Krell&B&Ws the later came out on top for me. I like both setups but I think the 801s with that higher power SS amp is my current favorite.

However, I am reticent to acquire the Krell because of its age. It is 9 years old and from what I understand it needs a cap job. I checked into it and it will run about $2000 without shipping. I know everything sounds good now but eventually service will be required. My friend is asking $4000 but he says he will come down in light of the needed service. How much should I pay if I decide to go that way? Another amp I am thinking about is a Mac mc452. How do you think the two amps compare sonically? The Mac I can get a great deal on, would be brand new and has great resale value. If I invest in the Krell it would be for the long haul with no thought of resale. I want to make the best sonic decision.

Guys I need some input here. I ned to make a decision fairly soon.

Chris, this is one of those times I need a long post.

Thanks for all of the input, guys.

I apologize for calling you.....

Wemfan, no worries I have been called much worse .....by my wife.

Re: Krell

Of course, the low end nears perfection but these amps sound good all the way up as well.

that is really good news. Sounds like you found "synergy" - do you realize that some audiophiles go in circles for 20 years+ looking for this. Changing gear in and out. Spending big $$$$

Recapping an amplifier is NOT rocket science.
The key is to find a good local guy; someone you can drive the amps to within an hour of you.
No shipping of heavy amps for me. Too many risks with couriers - ANXIETY filled.
A post on audiogon asking for service people in your area would give you an answer if you pursued that route.
You would be provided with names/numbers of people who come with reputations having worked on Krells.
fwiw - The service is $1200 for a 600, over 200 capacitors are replaced and then you are good for XX years.

Another option is to contact Dan D'Agostino direct. Yes D.A.
Audiophile rumor has it he (well his techs) will work on the Krells. but you didn't hear it from me. just a messenger.

But those 350 monoblocks are still young ? I would not think they would need caps for a while yet- but I am not a fortune teller and provide no guarantees. You are in a good position to know as they are local and are being sold by a friend so they have the history on them.
fwiw - have a look at the top screws. Have they ever been off ? If not this means everything is still as it came from the factory. This is a good thing imo as it means they were made on "a good day"
6 months ago my Studer tape deck died for some reason - lost power. My tech thought it was the power supply capacitors.
When I brought it over it was another problem. The capacitors were still at full spec. Do u know how old the Studer is ?
We hear a lot of doom and gloom on Audiophile forums about capacitors, tubes blowing, etc....
This is the Audiophile paranoia side you're hearing..... Music lovers are more care free .....
They (Music Lovers) are a lot more fun and they listen to better music than Audiophiles :^)

Re: MC 452

Another amp I am thinking about is a Mac mc452. How do you think the two amps compare sonically? The Mac I can get a great deal on, would be brand new and has great resale value.

How great a deal can u get on the Mc? You don't need to tell us the price. The point being...... can you resell on the market for same money or close to what they cost you if they don't work out? Then it may be worth the effort to bring that amp in just to hear it. A/B that Mc 452 amp with the Krell mono's.

I think that everyone on this thread would like to hear you impressions of both as well ?
That's a comparison I would personally like to read about.

Your space is 30 x 30 x 11. You've told us you like to crank it up and you like to walk around in your studio. This means the amp/s need to fill your whole space not just at your listening chair position.

Some of the amps mentioned here.

Krell 350
8 Ohms 350 W, 4 ohms 700 W, 2 Ohms 1,400 W

Krell 600
8 ohms 600 W, 4 ohms 1200 W, 2 Ohms 2400 W

McIntosh 452
450W @ 2, 4 or 8 Ohms
Uses Autoformers

We've seen some audiophile passion on your thread - re: SS and Tubes.
You will see the same amount of passion if you go threads that discuss Autoformers.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1262655794&read&keyw&zzmac=autoformers

I have no comment on it.

If you're considering the krell 350's, once you have the local service guy identified; you can have him check out the amps before you buy. He will check the values, see if there is any bulging or leakage going on, or any leakage /burnt marks on the actual circuit board.
Have this guy in your pocket to bring it to when its time. Piece of mind.
Myself I would not buy without having a local guy known and personally talked to about my situation - just so I am comfortable going in. There is a pair of those amps on audiogon right now.

Its VERY important to have dedicated 20 amp lines with higher power Krells for their health.
You will know when its time to recap. You will start hearing pops.
Also the dynamics and famous Krell bass and smooth highs will start getting worse.
So it will sound start sounding like it is clipping.

Hope this helps and let us know how it turns out. Don't forget the BAF.

Cheers

Another good post, thanks. I ordered a Mcintosh MC452 today so we will see how the two amps stack up against each other. I will post my impressions of the comparison. I am very curious as I have no idea what to expect. I do want the Krells they are just so too darn good to let them go but after I have heard the Mac I will know better what kind of deal to make. I did read someplace where a guy moved up to the 450mcx from the 350s and he said it was a big improvement. Your 600 must really be something.

I would guess that I will have to go to Dallas for a good tech which isn't too bad since I go there a lot, anyway. Of course, I won't do anything until there is a problem which may be way on down the road as you say. I feel as you do about shipping heavy amps.

Meanwhile the Krells are resting comfortably in my studio. I plan to spend some time with them this weekend and i will see how they sound all around the room as you suggested. One thing I know, they are killer amps!

I look forward to your impressions Wemfan.
Remember to factor in the service cost down the road (whenever it is needed), as part of the purchase price when considering the Krells.

Selfishly, I would like for Vegasears to drive over to your studio with his VTL 450's.

Then we could hear three-way comparison impressions.

But a google of Vegas to Dallas shows an 18 hour drive !

Cheers Chris