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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
grey9hound
1,112 posts
 
Don’t forget a Very BIg One
"Didn’t believe in Cables"
or maybe in the beginning ,
"Didn’t want to believe in cables or Admit to it" .. because, it opened a Whole Other "Can of Worms"
grey9hound
1,112 posts
 
@Viber6
I must correct you on 1 thing ...your Math.
If we only have 2 groups
#1- people who preferred the Rogue Amp
OR
#2- people who preferred the Other Amp
Unless it was split 50% VS 50 %
The smaller number of the group is "The Minority"
If it was 51% for the Other Amp
49% for the Rogue.
The People who liked the Rogue would be in the minority


Also I hate to say it but
The reality is that most systems I have heard are dull and lacking top end.
That is not "Reality"
That is "Your Opinon"...as you see it , with your background and your experience .
It might be "Your Reality"
Problem is that you talk about everything as if it is fact, but IN FACT it is your opinion.
You really should use IMO or IMHO in your statements or opinions.
and Stop stating things as fact, when in reality, it is you opinion.
Am I wrong here ?


kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Viber, the reason very few here respect your sonic views (as is clear by the responses you’re seeing) is not because they are fringe views and, as Paul accurately states, tend towards exactly the type of sound most audiophiles try to avoid (poor quality, INACCURATE sound).

No, that is not the reason.

The reason is that you lie and make crap up to suit your fringe views. And you do it incessantly.

Example: “90% here prefer soft, rolled off highs”
Wrong. I”d bet very few do. Everyone raise your hand if you prefer soft, rolled off highs. I prefer accuracy, which is what most of WC’s stuff has. Your Rouge, by contrast, was not accurate at all, which experienced audiophiles recognized even if you couldn’t. Go rewatch WC’s review of your amp. It parallels what Paul and I posted before the reveal, but with additional context.

Example 2: You say Jay has said the VAC is soft and pleasant, implying it is not accurate. That is a lie. You just cannot handle that VAC is MORE ACCURATE than the gear you favor.

So yes, you have a lot to learn, my friend, as so many here are trying to show you. The last page or so are folks graciously and patiently trying to help you grow in your audio journey.

Your preferences are your preferences, and that’s fine. But don’t lie about what others think or what WC thinks to suit your fringe views
rsf507
2,324 posts
 
+1 @grey9houd your last post regarding Viber is so accurate I couldn’t have said it better. If Viber truly is listening then he’d quietly go away
psnyder149's avatar
psnyder149
160 posts
 
@viber6,

Correcting your assertion…. 57% vs 43% is a landslide.  30% more.  But that is not really the true result…  I was just summarizing.  The full results are far more revealing and detrimental to your position. 

presentation 1:  45%-55%. (The least obvious of the 3) 20% more.
presentation 2:  41%-59%.  45% more
presentation 3:  (and easily the clearest to hear due to the more revealing Soulution preamplifier:….  37%-63%.   70% more.  

A gargantuan difference and statistically significant by nearly any measure.  

The difference between the Rouge and mystery amp were not “fairly small”.  They were so large that many of us—including you—had no trouble not only identifying differences but rather confidently labeling the two on multiple blind AB trials via a highly and lossy compressed YouTube video recorded with an iPhone and stereo microphone.  A reasonable expectation would be that if they were “fairly close” we wouldn’t be able to identify them.

Addressing what is more likely the main reason your preferences are tilted so far away from the norm (accepting that you do have some knowledge, some experience and some skill):  It seems likely that in your age, you have lost much more of your hearing above a few thousand hz than you realize.  An expected result of both age and spending much of your life sitting in the middle of an orchestra and having your instrument’s sound hole 6 inches from your ear.

Until you have designed and successfully sold a line of audiophile equipment or world class instruments or been the keynote speaker at an audio or recording conference or been otherwise publicly recognized—contrary to your own opinion—you are not an expert in this field.  You are an hobbyist with some experiences and a point of view.  That’s it…. Just like most of us.  

I studied cello with 2nd chair in Pittsburgh symphony.  I studied classical guitar in college.  I have been the manager of an actively touring and recording artist recording in some of the worlds best studios working with top producers and engineers.  I have been on the credits of 3 records that spent time on Billboards top 10 chart.  I have owned several world class instruments including cello and guitars.  I grew up with an audiophile father who hand built his own first stereo in the late 50’s early 60’s while attending MIT for undergraduate and graduate school and was constantly trying to improve his system.  Audio Research SP3 and SP6b with Vandersteen speakers were some of his prized system in the 70’s and 80’s—I know you would hate that system, but I wonder how many thousands of speakers Richard V has sold over the past half century?.  I have been patiently building my own high end system since college in the 80’s (albeit never reaching into the stratosphere world that Jay is able to report on).  I have been blessed to listen to some of the greatest musicians in very good… and very bad venues.  

BUT…!  I am not an expert.  I am also an hobbyist.  I am a music lover striving to eke out that little bit of higher performance within my limited budget.—By the way, there are other trained, professional musicians that also participate in this thread.  You are far from special in this regard.

You regularly expound on equipment that you have not ever heard, let alone owned or had in your system and then castigate others for doing the same thing.

I have an idea…. Take out your camera phone—without changing a setting (we are on the honor system…!)—take a picture of your beloved Rane (clearly showing the settings) and post it on your Audiogon virtual system.  We can then take a pole and post what we all think your system would sound like.   My top 2 predictions…. 1.  Teenager that listens to too much heavy metal at <105 db’s,  2.  Deaf old man who ought to recognize his own deficiencies by virtue of the settings he has chosen on his Radio Shack quality, graphic equalizer that are readily available for $129.99 + shipping in 1 whopping payment from eBay.

You like to talk about equipment that is not to your preference as “euphonic”, “soft”, “rolled off”, etc.  I’m guessing that were we not polite, we would describe your 1970’s era graphic equalizer modified preferred sound as “discordant”, “disharmonious”, “dissonant”, “inharmonious”, “blaring”, “grating”, “harsh”, “jarring”—antonyms for “euphonic”.  I would likely describe it as strident, harsh and completely unnatural.  In a world where the designers of high end equipment spend their lives striving to perfect their equipment according to you nearly every one of them get’s it so wrong that you have to apply  up to 12 db to the top 15% of the spectrum—as stated per your prior posts—of elevating levels from 8000-20000 Hz.  What you describe as “sparkle”, most of us would describe as shrill… the stuff of fingernails on a chalkboard.

You are being patently offensive when you say that the readers  “…90% in favor of soft, pleasant amps with rolled off HF”.  You are being patently offensive when you say “only a small % of a-Phil’s are trying to imitate reality/high fidelity… most people have a preference for just what pleases them without an objective standard.”  

When tossing the word “foolish” about criticizing your expertise, clearly there is not a mirror large enough in your house to recognize yourself.

Warmest, Euphonic regards,
Paul

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