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Looking For A Dialogue Around Using An Ortofon MC2000 In My Current System

As a bit of history, I used to work in a stereo store part time as a college student. This store was an Ortofon dealer and the owner was a fan of the MC2000, and we typically had one in the store. I was too poor to afford it, but it was always on my want list. Last week I came across an MC2000 on an audio site and bought it. This one is as close to a time capsule as we can get for vintage MC cartridges. While not NOS its in perfect shape with Ortofon outer box, Styrofoam, intter box, all the tools, the graphs, two stylus guards, and even an Ortofon stick pin I presume for you to wear to audio shows to signify you are an MC2000 owner. The stock and irreplaceable cantilever is there and its straight, and rides high. Of course the unknown is diamond wear, and so I am planning to send it out for evaluation and consideration for diamond replacement. 

 

Now the question becomes how to use it. First comes a suitable arm. I have two Dynavector DV505 for a Scheu Das Laufwerk No2 turntable that I can use, and also a Supex SL4 headshell that weighs 5.5 grams or so. I have the stock headshell that comes with the MC2000, but that looks to weigh 10 grams, and this cartridge is highly compliant. I also have a SME V that is spec'd between 10 and 11 grams. I almost consider the SME to be the best match for this application, but then that regulated the number of hours I might use that table as the MC2000 isn't going to be a daily driver cartridge. 

 

Next question is how to get enough gain for it. The owner apparently has the T2000, but is unwilling to part with it at this time. So ideally I would like to find a T2000. I also have an MC3000, and so need the step up for it, and I happen to also have a MC200u. My Esoteric E-03 has 40 db of gain on MM mode, and I have a Graham Slee Accession that is 41.5 dB of gain. The Esoteric is 66 dB in MC mode. So until I locate a T2000 I wondered what options I have. Jensen makes a high output SUT that is 31 dB of gain and seems to be the best choice. I do not see any active pre-pre amps that can do the job. Any thoughts here?

 

As a crazy thought, the Accession has a direct mode that bypasses all RIAA equalization, so its really a pre pre amp then. But placing the Esoteric ahead of it means you are looking at a gain structure of over 80 dB. Probably not a good idea, but I wonder if it could work. Just brainstorming here. Of course the perfect solution is to find a T2000, or even in a pinch a T3000 for the interim till I do locate a T2000. Problem is these SUT have collectors value and they seem to go for silly money these days. But that is what it is, and you have to pay the piper. 

 

So any thoughts on the best way to get this MC2000 integrated into the system?

neonknight
Post removed 
edgewear
543 posts
 

The MC2000 is generally considered a difficult customer to satisfy, due to its unusual combination of extremily low output level and very high compliance. However, in my experience the output level is more problematic to deal with than the compliance. A total gain of 66dB is probably too low and you will likely experience some level of hum or hiss. You should aim for at least 70dB, so with a 30dB SUT you’ll be fine, provided the phono stage and SUT are both of very high quality. So there’s no need to hunt down the rare 35dB T-2000. I use the MC2000 with the 30dB T-3000 for a total of 70dB gain without the slightest noise. The ‘000’ SUT series are expensive because they are silver wired, but still bargains compared to what silver wired SUT’s cost new these days.

As for compliance, it works splendidly with a heavy gun like FR-64S, but equally fine with several medium effective mass tonearms I operate. No experience with the Dyna or the SME, but I suspect they will both work just fine with MC2000.
Good luck with your purchase, if you get it right you’re in for a real treat.

solypsa's avatar
solypsa
462 posts
 

using the Graham as a head amp will give the Esoteric input a nominal 6mV which is high but not crazy high...Try it!

 

As for SUT Jensen or Lundahl for standard high gain ( ~32 db ) choices or call Slagle and get one custom wound that should surpass the Ortofon.

 

Can’t say the 505 arm is a great match but never tried it. seems like the SME is the choice...

lewm
13,035 posts
 

I have already suggested that you contact Intact Audio. Another source for a proper transformer would be Jensen in California. They may be able to custom build you a SUT with a high enough turns ratio to accommodate your MC2000. (Or maybe they even make one already; check their website.) As I mentioned to you, I am using mine in a Dynavector DV505, with a lightweight CF headshell. Results are satisfactory, but I don’t know if they are optimal as I have not tried other lightweight tonearms. Gordon Holt in his original review back when pointed out that the weight of the cartridge itself, combined with its high compliance, meant that you optimally need a 5g tonearm for best resonant frequency. Not too many tonearms fulfill that strict criterion, maybe an Infinity Black Widow or one of the lightweight ADC tonearms. The theoretical problem with the DV505 is that although the vertical effective mass is at least in the right ballpark, with a light headshell, its horizontal effective mass is much higher, somewhat like a typical SL tonearm. Anyway, your MC2000 will certainly "work" in the DV505 for the time being at least.

 

By the way, the MC2000 is also a good candidate for a current-driven phono stage, which might not cost much more than a custom SUT.  Curent equals voltage divided by resistance.  .05mV/2 ohms = .025mA.  Some other LOMC cartridges commonly used with current drive don't make as much current as the MC2000. You still need lots of gain, though.

neonknight OP
392 posts
 

@mrwigglewm 

Yes there was a brief mention of Intact and that you do use a DV505 with the MC2000. I started this thread to have a bit more in depth conversation than we had and get different perspectives to see what is possible. 

With the Supex headshell the vertical mass of the DV505 will be fine. I wonder about the horizontal mass, and I do admit to being concerned about the long term effects and if a cantilever can end up being skewed because of the higher mass. 

The SME V at 10 grams should keep resonance within bounds, its going to be low but should be usable. Ideally a carbon fiber black widow would work, but most of these low mass arms are intended for high compliance cartridges...that do not have a body that weighs 11 grams. So how to get enough counterweight to balance it to 1 gram tracking weight is a challenge. 

Jensen does make a transformer that provides 30 dB of gain, its a custom order. The question becomes how well shielded it is. That I cannot find info out on. The vintage transformers seem to have become fetish items, and its hard to find a T X000 series transformer at this time. I do see a T5000 for somewhat sane money, and since the MC5000 is essentially a MC3000 with different cantilever the SUT should be the same. Of course in a perfect world I find a T2000 for this cartridge and a T3000 for my MC3000. 

 

The reading from the original review shows that active step ups like the Klyne were unable to achieve a low enough noise floor to work well with the MC2000. And there seems to be no modern active pre pre amps available at this time that can do 30dB of gain. So this does not seem to be an avenue that can be pursued. 

One last transformer that looks to be an option is the Hashimoto, as the H-3 can be configured for 30 dB of gain. 

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