Looking For A Dialogue Around Using An Ortofon MC2000 In My Current System


As a bit of history, I used to work in a stereo store part time as a college student. This store was an Ortofon dealer and the owner was a fan of the MC2000, and we typically had one in the store. I was too poor to afford it, but it was always on my want list. Last week I came across an MC2000 on an audio site and bought it. This one is as close to a time capsule as we can get for vintage MC cartridges. While not NOS its in perfect shape with Ortofon outer box, Styrofoam, intter box, all the tools, the graphs, two stylus guards, and even an Ortofon stick pin I presume for you to wear to audio shows to signify you are an MC2000 owner. The stock and irreplaceable cantilever is there and its straight, and rides high. Of course the unknown is diamond wear, and so I am planning to send it out for evaluation and consideration for diamond replacement. 

 

Now the question becomes how to use it. First comes a suitable arm. I have two Dynavector DV505 for a Scheu Das Laufwerk No2 turntable that I can use, and also a Supex SL4 headshell that weighs 5.5 grams or so. I have the stock headshell that comes with the MC2000, but that looks to weigh 10 grams, and this cartridge is highly compliant. I also have a SME V that is spec'd between 10 and 11 grams. I almost consider the SME to be the best match for this application, but then that regulated the number of hours I might use that table as the MC2000 isn't going to be a daily driver cartridge. 

 

Next question is how to get enough gain for it. The owner apparently has the T2000, but is unwilling to part with it at this time. So ideally I would like to find a T2000. I also have an MC3000, and so need the step up for it, and I happen to also have a MC200u. My Esoteric E-03 has 40 db of gain on MM mode, and I have a Graham Slee Accession that is 41.5 dB of gain. The Esoteric is 66 dB in MC mode. So until I locate a T2000 I wondered what options I have. Jensen makes a high output SUT that is 31 dB of gain and seems to be the best choice. I do not see any active pre-pre amps that can do the job. Any thoughts here?

 

As a crazy thought, the Accession has a direct mode that bypasses all RIAA equalization, so its really a pre pre amp then. But placing the Esoteric ahead of it means you are looking at a gain structure of over 80 dB. Probably not a good idea, but I wonder if it could work. Just brainstorming here. Of course the perfect solution is to find a T2000, or even in a pinch a T3000 for the interim till I do locate a T2000. Problem is these SUT have collectors value and they seem to go for silly money these days. But that is what it is, and you have to pay the piper. 

 

So any thoughts on the best way to get this MC2000 integrated into the system?

neonknight

Dear @neonknight  :  On other thread you started and talking about those Ortofon vintage cartridges you posted:

" Perhaps there are limitations in my gear that homogenize the sound.  ""

"" To be honest this is a casual cartridge, so I don't want to spend multiple thousands on a SUT for a cartridge that cost me $900. ""

 

I posted and asked there something that you decided not give an answer. Look;

and you started this thread to discuss what when already existed the other thread?. Makes no sense to me but it's up to you.

 

R.

Dear @lewm  : " I have two other high gain phono stages that are certainly quiet enough, but they don't have quite enough gain to make me happy.  The MC2000 sounds a bit anemic with those two. "

 

I can't know the @edgewear opinion but the MC2000 " undress " any room/system, same as the Essential 3150/60.

 

In neither of those SS active high gain phonolinepreamps the MC2000 sounds " anemic ". I think that you have some trouble in your room/system. Where? I can't know but your post showed a trouble down there.

Your comparison with the cartridge in the MM+"headamp"(?) is a bad one because you are comparing apples with tomatoes. Way different.

 

As I said, you have a problem where you are not aware of it yet.

Think of all what is hidding behind that Manley Steelhead ( obviously by tubes. ) plus additional IC cables/connectors plus that " headamp " against the straigth Essential unit that additional has a way more accurated inverse RIAA eq. that your Manley.

 

Anyway, several differences down there. 

 

R.

@rauliruegas
 

I am afraid I am just a bit simple, as I am not understanding the point of the previous post.

I do understand the reference back to the MC3000 post I made earlier this year when I acquired that cartridge. When I purchased that cartridge, it indeed was meant as a casual cartridge as I had pretty modest money invested in it. I was not sure I wanted to spend $1000 to $2000 for a SUT for it, and it be the only cartridge I need that level of SUT for.

The MC2000 is a different level of cartridge for me, in part because of the memories of when I worked in a hi fi store that I posted in the opening post. Also the output voltage demands a high gain device, whether it be SUT or active, and that is a non-negotiable item, when you have .05 mV however you step up that signal is going to be a somewhat expensive solution. As Lewm said, that will cost money.

Finally, this is a pretty rare opportunity, as there are not many MC2000 produced to start with, and the number of good ones are slowly being dwindled because of accidents and wear. I watched two auctions on Buyee and one is decent shape but only stylus guard went for a bit over $1000, and one with a skewed cantilever but all case and paperwork went for slightly over $1000 also, and we don’t know if the cantilever can be saved. I am fortunate to find one that looks as close to as new as can be hoped for, of course we do not know the condition of the diamond, and that means to make it a quality cartridge it’s going to need a diamond exchange. A paratrace will probably be as close as one can hope to get to the original diamond, and the best that can be done at this point.

How I obtained this cartridge is a bit of a miracle also. I was sitting with my wife one evening watching Star Trek with her, and I was browsing through Canuckmart when I ran across the ad that was put up earlier in the day. I saw that he did not take Paypal, and it had been up for a number of hours already. I reached out just in case, and the seller agreed to work with me while I arranged payment through a friend in Canada. His kindness allowed me to make a purchase. The very fortunate part is that the price was $650 CAD, and with shipping it ended up costing my $582 USD. Getting a cartridge of this rarity and in this condition, and difficult payment arrangement was short of a miracle. I suspect it would have been a long time before an opportunity like this would present itself again.

So that creates a bit of excitement for me, and the belief that this can be more than a casual cartridge like I had planned for the MC3000. Also I now have 3 cartridges that can benefit from a high gain pre pre-amp, whether it be SUT or active. So I am more amenable to spending that money. One other thing I have not mentioned is I was also fortunate enough to acquire another Dynavector DV505 arm that will get mounted to the Scheu Analog Das Laufwerk No 2 table. So between two detachable headshell arms that are identical, and a phono stage that allows for two inputs, I have the ability to make cartridge comparisons that will have the same table, arm, and phono stage, and independent loading options for each side. That should keep me busy for awhile.

Could you please clarify for me what the question is for the last post you were wanting an answer for? I will certainly try to give you the best answer I can.

Cheers!

@neonknight 

Just a little info that may be of help.

I have owned Dynavector arms ( along with many others )  for 30 years and have used them with a variety of cartridges. The Dynavector has high effective mass in the horizontal plane, and lower effective mass in the vertical plain. This means the low frequency peak will be much lower than a conventional arm as it is split over 2 frequencies due to the split effective mass.. Also in the horizontal plane it has electromagnetic damping which helps to control low frequency resonance in the horizontal mode ( where the high mass is ).

I have been quite surprised at the results with high compliance cartridges in this arm despite the high horizontal effective mass. They have been excellent.

I would not be too worried about using the DV505 for the high compliance Ortofon MC2000.

 

 

Raul, you are wrong in your comments about my system. Ridiculously presumptuous in fact.