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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
viber6
2,448 posts
 

Jay,

You are the master audio businessman.  You've come a long way, baby.  5 years ago, you were listening to mid-fi stuff, and now you are at the SOTA level and with a growing YT following.  You know better than I how to run your YT channel.  So my main contribution to your audio happiness is showing how you can obtain maximum audio pleasure with different components, probably saving lots of money in the journey.  As far as the Benchmark AHB2 goes, several well meaning people have vouched for the outstanding qualities of that amp.  Mikey has gained a great YT presence by recommending cheap, excellent products.  He wouldn't like the neutrality of the AHB2, but you can make a similar YT hit by comparing it to your new neutral amps.

viber6
2,448 posts
 

kren0006,

By no stretch of the imagination (except for yours) was my Rouge butt-kicked.  We had this discussion many months ago.  At least 40% of the YT voters preferred the Rouge.  You and Jay preferred his amp.  All that proves is that both of your sonic preferences for a little warmth are consistent with that choice.  Why do you deprecate the preferences of others who voted for the Rouge?  What gives you the nerve to think they don't know what they are talking about?  Jay is more open than you to respecting the choices of others.

But unlike you who say that musical knowledge and experiences have nothing to do with analyzing sound, my experiences give me an understanding of why people have different preferences.  For example, if a classical music or jazz unamplified music listener likes midhall tonal quality, he would tend to choose warmer electronics, speakers, etc.  I respect his musical tastes, just as I respect his choice of a musical instrument to play such as midrange-dominant cello or French horn.  My favorite instrument is the violin, more HF oriented, so I prefer the front row seat. He and I respect each others tastes and agree that those tastes correspond with our audio preferences.

My biggest objection is using artificial recordings and live rock events with bad amps and PA speakers to judge audio.  The worst I've heard here is the Zeppelin video.  The sound is muddy and distorted.  How can anyone judge analog vs digital using that?  How can neutrality, warmth, or anything we discuss here be assessed from that recording?  Anyone who enjoys that music is entitled to their musical pleasure, but why use that recording?  I wouldn't use a 1920 classical recording for audio evaluation, although I appreciate the musical content.  But Jay's music is much more tame than Zeppelin, much better audio quality, and much more useful for assessment of audio components.

It is most useful to use live, unamped music as a reference.  Sit at different distances, and be aware of different mike techniques used to make recordings.  If you build your audio system based on the quest for high fidelity, these experiences are important.  But if the listener just wants sound to please him without any reference to high fidelity to natural music, that's OK for him, but it does take the wonder out of why many of us were attracted to this hobby.  It all started about 120 years ago, when middle class people who couldn't afford to hire live musicians could experience their "likeness" in their homes on demand.  "His Master's Voice" with the dog listening to the horn of the record player was a great promotion for the thrill of fidelity, which got better and better.

yyzsantabarbara
4,872 posts
 

I see my name mentioned above somewhere. I love the AHB2 my fav amp by far, but I also love the new KRELL XD amp that I paid for today. The KRELL does not sound anything like the AHB2. 

In the past when I offered up my AHB2 monos for the comparison I said that it likely will not win many hearts on this thread (the KRELL would). One factor was sonic preferences that skew more toward "musical" sound on this thread. The other is that I doubt that the AHB2 monos would be able to drive the big Wilsons that Jay owns. I have heard many Wilsons and they have usually been driven by amps that had more power than the AHB2.

One reason I have gone into the rat hole of buying amps was because I did not like the AHB2 stereo or mono with my Thiel CS3.7 (hard to drive). I am keeping the AHB2 in another system while I got more beefy amps for my Thiel CS3.7.

thezaks
712 posts
 

viber6 - I completely agree that 40% is not at all a butt-kicking!  In fact, it's amazing to me that such an inexpensive amp convinced 40% of folks that it's better than the much more expensive amp.  Yes, it was just YT, but that's all we have at our disposal, unless we want to make the trip to visit WC  :-)

 

yysantabarbara - which Krell XD model did you get?   Are you using it to drive your Thiels?

 

Dave

psnyder149's avatar
psnyder149
160 posts
 

New polling request...

"What qualifies as a butt-kicking?"

The stage is set:

1 challenge with 3 samples taken as a whole.

 Do these combined results qualify as a "Butt-kicking"?  

Interested readers want to know?

The data:

presentation 1:  45-55% -- 20% more for mystery amp

presentation 2:  41-59% -- 45% more for mystery amp

presentation 3:  37-63% --70% more for mystery amp

 

My vote (and let's all assume...! Krens vote):  BUTT-KICKING.

 

Put another way:  If you were going to Vegas and playing a game where the long term stats in a game, which side would you bet on and would you play that game a lot?   Would you play any other game!???  Would you bet on the Rouge???:  BUTT-KICKING.

Anyone else want to weigh in?  Viber thinks Kren and I are outliers on this matter?  How do all of you feel?

Are any of you looking to trade in your high dollar amps for Rouge? 

my prediction...:  BUTT-KICKING

 

Viber, As we have privately discussed.  Your preferences are your own:  not right or wrong.  But your preferences are in the strong minority, at least for people on this thread.  I suspect people that read this thread are less interested in good sounding budget products like the Rouge and--likely--the AHB2.  I think more of us are interested in fantastic SOTA prducts, regardless of whether or not we will be able to ever afford them.  There are dozens of places to read about good sounding budget equipment.  Very few places to read about high end pieces where the reviewers are not beholden to ad revenue or retailer biases (i.e. I like what I sell...).

One David vs. Goliath challenge was fun.  David got crushed.  None of his stone found it's mark.  I want to see Goliath vs. Goliath!  I suspect I am not in the minority of this threads readers.

Let's add a wager to the results:  If the readers of this thread deem the Rouge shootout as a Butt-Kicking then Viber has to restrict his posts to 1 per week for the next 6 months.  If the readers don't agree to Butt-Kicking then Kren and I have to restrict our posts to no more than 1 per week for the next 6 months.

Deal?

Starting score:  Rouge didn't get it's Butt Kicked:  1  BUTT-KICKING:  2

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