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True or False?

The following is a common sentiment from some who claim to be audiophiles.

If you hear something but can’t measure it, you only think you heard a difference.

 

This notion is also common among people who claim to possess an accomplished understanding of audio, especially when achieving a high level of performance for a minimal investment.

So who’s right? On the one hand we have Objectivists who claim if you can’t measure it, you can’t possibly hear it or if you do, its expectation bias and self delusion. Are these people correct? Do they get as good as a sound, or better for far less money by ignoring cables, power cords, mechanical isolation, basically any accessory that many have found to dramatically improve performance despite a lack measurements? Do those who dismiss expensive digital to analog converters as being no better than rather common digital components with decent measurements get just as high a performance level as those of us with MSB and DCS? Do people who claim it’s all about finding perfect speaker placement, do these people outperform those of us with systems that cost multiples more than what they pay (Who also pay close attention to speaker placement as well as everything else)? Or do those of us who pay attention to cables— digital, analog, and power, what we set our components on top of, how we place our speakers, acoustics, and tweaks, expensive DACs and the like, do we get better sound? Who’s right? And how do we ultimately determine sound quality?

 

 

 

128x128ted_denney
4afsanakhan
134 posts
 

In response to your question Ted, 

I do think measurements are critical, but measurements do not always ensure the best sounding product. That is my experience.

If we take the case of the Border Patrol DAC mentioned here, its tube output stage, right? Tubes do bring a very appealing sound, and can add a touch of euphony. It measurements are said to be not that good. But that color can disguise a deficit in performance in other parameters.

The integrity of source signal / the streamed file , is critical. A DAC and amp that measures particularly well, and is well engineered to drive the source with a robust, complete signal, will sound right with an excellent signal. The problem is that so many recordings, or streaming services can fail to deliver the perfect signal. Thats when a product (such as the Border Patrol) can add some color and sound / and feel more involving.

Yes everything matters to ensure the best possible signal transfer without loss. My experience so far is that digital coax cables really do sound different. I have not found ethernet or USB cables to sound different. Then again I have not heard a high-end USB cable yet. 
 

BTW I have The SR  Music Cable DAC (which is a great sounding little DAC), also foundation speaker cables (3mtr) and cable risers (set of 4).

 

asvjerry's avatar
asvjerry
4,813 posts
 

🤨....It's always made sense to me to pay some attention to the 'measured specs' of anything, to have a 'baseline' from which to start....although I personally 'started' quite awhile back.  Therefore, I accept and expect a given amount of predispositions and just plain preferences to 'color' my choices.....

The 'choices' over what and how to engage to and with any and all previous selections begins to creep into the realm of the infinite, even before one's 'performance space' is left to accommodate...

It all comes down to a subjective experience that's all your own.
What looks great in theory can still sound like trash...expensive trash, but there you go....🤷‍♂️
What is 'meh' on paper could outdo the previous in a walk.
We can call it 'lucky'....even if only for the owner.

Ultimately, the rest of our 'imho' shouldn't matter....when the descriptions fall into "sounds more solid', 'warmth', 'shrill', 'flat, without depth'....

Well, that shouldn't be much different than the 'positive remarks' over how X made Y+ (all the other upstream/downstream of the new X) seem 'better'.

What floats your boat?  Good, go there.  Tell us/me what you like/don't, and what you perceive is happening.....

(That, in itself, seems to be the fuse enough for some...and endless multipage forums that start to read like an afternoon soaper...if that still exists...)

 

tomic601's avatar
tomic601
13,138 posts
 

Ted - Fuses popping in aisle 4, cleanup required.. 2X the Cary rating…

 

asvjerry's avatar
asvjerry
4,813 posts
 

Simple or sublime.. the end result is subjective.

SET/SS...D or A....or both....open baffled, tiny monkey box....cones, screens, amt's, domes, 'phones....OFC or exotics, opticals  CAT4 or B/T....LMNOP....

Too Many Variables....so we're left with 'descriptions'....

...'twas ever thus...

asvjerry's avatar
asvjerry
4,813 posts
 

@tomic601 .....hazmat suit....check....

tongs, shovel, hose....check..

 

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