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Underpowered?

Hi guys.  Newbie here asking for advice. 

I recently purchased a pair of B&W 702 Signature (8Ω, 30-300W, 90 dB) to replace my old faithful 683s (8Ω, 20-200W, 90 dB).  I am running them with a McIntosh MA252 (100W into 8Ω, 160W into 4Ω).  I purchased them thinking they would complete my end-game system.  However, my excitement turned into disappointment when I realized the lows were somewhat lacking.  For all their faults, the 683s had a great dynamic low kick (no sub) that I was looking to take one step further.  Unsurprisingly, the highs and mids on the 702s were indeed more detailed and separation was clearer, but I couldn't get over the uninspiring lows.  I found myself listening at higher volumes chasing for that bass oomph.  Neither playing with the EQ at the source nor the amp was satisfactory.  So, I did the research that perhaps I should've done before purchasing the 702s and found out they are quite power hungry despite the specs being similar to the 683s.  I emailed B&W and McIntosh and they agreed the amp is probably underpowered for the 702s.  B&W described the sound of an underpowered speaker as one lacking low response and details, which is spot on. McIntosh suggested the MA352 (200W into 8Ω, 320W into 4Ω).

Of note, I love the MA252 and really wish there was a way to make this work.  I don't need a DAC/streamer/etc so I'm happy to put all my money on better sound vs tech features.  But I also think the speakers sound amazing even when somewhat underpowered and I'm considering upgrading to a MA352, Michi X3, Hegel 390.  Another option could be to get a sub? But I feel that would defeat the purpose of having a 3way standing speaker and then I might as well get a pair of bookshelf speakers (805 D4s, LS50 metas?).

So what do you guys think? Is it normal for a speaker that's rated 30-300W to be underpowered with a 100W amp?? What would you do:

  1. Sell the 702s and look for a better match for my MA252?

  2. Upgrade the MA252 (MA352? Michi X3? NAD 33?)?

  3. Get a subwoofer?

I would really appreciate your thoughts/advice!

dridel
dridel OP
15 posts
 

You guys are right and my conclusion was oversimplified and impossible to generalize. So let me try again:

Moral of the story: never dismiss a pair of speakers before feeding them at least half of their rated maximum wattage!

Also: "Details matter" - @jjss49 (and thanks for explaining why!)

I still don't understand why B&W would risk making customers (and reviewers) unhappy by rating these speakers at 8Ω / 30-300W. But what do I know...?

A few more thoughts about the MA352:
- The headphone amp is noticeably better than MA252's.  I looked into it and the MA352 has something called "Headphone Crossfeed Director (HXD®)" that the MA252 apparently doesn't.  What a nice, unexpected surprise!
- I dig the default EQ both at low and high volumes.  No urgent need to play with the 5-band EQ but it's nice to have it.
- I am happy to find that even low kbps tracks sound better.
- I know its looks are controversial, but I think it's one of the best-looking amps out there.  Yes, I even dig the fake green tube LEDs. I just wish it had the blue OLED display of the MA252 instead of the very 90s-y green one (why doesn't it??).
- I know there are better amps/speakers out there, but I'm so happy with this pair as a starting place to build upon. Maybe a DAC upgrade is next?
- I am curious to hear how much of a difference the REL S5/SHO will make in my setup, because honestly, I listen to it right now and I ask myself how much better can it get?? 

Daniel

david_ten
5,480 posts
 

@dridel 

I still don't understand why B&W would risk making customers (and reviewers) unhappy by rating these speakers at 8Ω / 30-300W. But what do I know...?

Because B&W cannot account for absolute pairings, given the diversity of the amplifier universe, vintage through cutting edge Class D, nor usage situations, nor user preferences.

The question to ask yourself is: are you really in a position to come to a conclusion and a "morals of a story" statement after trying a single amp that works for you?

Just to be clear, the above is meant to be helpful [read not critical]. 

Again, I'm glad and happy you've found a solution that works for you. At the end of the day, that's all that matters.

 

jim5559
604 posts
 

B& W is now owned a firm that knows nothing about audio or cares to .

Fews years will be another , true of all almost old name stuff .

skebet
5 posts
 

Interesting thread, and seems this was resolved, but wanted to pop in because Hegel was mentioned earlier in connection with these speakers and wanted to add:

 

B&W 702 Signature is absolutely glorious powered by Hegel H20 200w amplifier. I've heard Hegel/B&W quite a few times and I think I'd stick with Hegel over McIntosh for B&W's for sure, especially for that iron low end control.

jjss49's avatar
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jjss49
6,612 posts
 

agree, hegels are superb, in an absolute sense, and also for the value they represent

(no affiliation, just a happy and impressed customer/owner many times over)

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