The problem with streaming

The title of this thread should have read ’The problem with bad pressings’.

Maybe to some it is ’part of the hobby’, but the mere fact that pressings can be bad and that one has to search for a good one already is reason enough to me to stay far away from vinyl.

And even a good pressing is a bad one. If one considers the countless electrical, mechanical (!) and chemical (!) steps in between the master tape and the signal going into your amplifier ... the audio compression to limit the dynamic range, the RIAA compression to limit the bass groove amplitude, the cutting of the master disk, the wear of the master disk, the chemical and heat treatment steps with pressing the disks, the wear of the vinyl, the dust and (micro) scratches, the shape of the needle, the player rotation speed error, the disk non flatness and non centeredness, the arm angle and weight correction, the wow, flutter and rumble, the process of translating mechanical movement into a tiny delicate electrical signal, the problem of stereo separation, the need for great amplification, the introduced noise floor, the reversed RIAA correction ... it’s even a miracle that any decent sound can be retrieved this way from what once was the master recording.

If the sound is bad, it could be a bad pressing. Or it could be a bad master recording / mixing ... a good pressing won’t make the sound better ... on the contrary.

 

@vuch 

I just couldn't agree more.

Back in the day and the start of vinyl LPs in the 1950s and their heyday perhaps in the 60s, at least for us boomer rockers, the recordists, producers and engineers all cared deeply about sound quality.  Decca and EMI amongst other produced SQ that has never been equalled IMHO and possibly never will.

 

The contrast with today is palpable (good use here of that over-used word).  The guys today just don't give a damn, they just want to get the product out.  That's OK for most youngsters today they don't give a damn either and mostly listen on handphones, tablets and small computers with the whole electronics on a single chip and five inch high plastic speakers.

 

Ho hum.

Nope! There is no substitute. I’m of the school of Tom Port, Better Records. I at first thought how can one pressing sound different or better than another? Until I actually tried it for myself. It is true, some pressings are just plain flat, no dynamics, boring etc...the right one is just fantastic. I doubt Tom streams much lol. Don’t get me wrong, I stream now and then, generally when I’m tired or feeling lazy, or just want some stuff playing in back ground. However, any serious listening is done with vinyl.

@rudy b

If you want to miss out that's your business.  The artifacts you mention are easily solvable or have their digital equivalents that affect SQ far more adversely.

 

Let's analyse.

countless electrical, mechanical steps  GENERALISATION.  NO MORE STEPS THAN DIGITAL

chemical steps   WHY SHOULD THE MANUFACTURE OF THE DISCS AFFECT SOUND?

audio compression   NONE.  COMPRESSION IS A DIGITAL ARTIFACT

RIAA compression to limit the bass groove amplitude   IT IS NOT COMPRESSION IT IS ATTENUATION AT ONE END AND AMPLIFICATION AT THE OTHER.  EFFECTIVELY MERELY THE APPLICATION OF A POTENTIOMETER LIKE THE ONES ON YOUR AMP

cutting of the master disk    IT OCCURS IN REAL TIME AND REPRODUCES THE SIGNAL AS A CURVE, NOT A SERIES OF DISCRETE STEPS AS IN DIGITAL. IT OCCURS IN REAL TIME AND HAS NO CLOCK ERROR OR DITHER THAT ARE THE INCURABLE CONCEPTUAL SCOURGE OF DIGITAL

the wear of the master disk  THERE IS VERY LITTLE WEAR.  IN MOST APPLICATIONS IT WILL MOTHER AROUND TEN STAMPERS ONLY.  THE DAYS OF ELVIS AND THE BEATLES SELLING MILLIONS OF COPIES ARE LONG GONE.

the chemical and heat treatment steps with pressing the disks  DEALT WITH ABOVE.  IT'S JUST PART OF THE MANUFACTURING PROCESS

the wear of the vinyl, the dust and (micro) scratches   ON 99% OF MY DISCS THESE ARE INAUDIBLE.  BY THE WAY, IT'S BEST NOT TO EAT OFF YOUR LPS

the shape of the needle  SO WHAT???  THE LINE CONTACT PROFILES OF GOOD MC STYLI READ EVEN MORE ACCURATELY THAN THE ORIGINAL SPHERICAL TIPS

player rotation speed error   IS ALMOST NON-EXISTENT AND FAR LESS OF A PROBLEM THAN CLOCK ERRORS AND DITHER ON DIGITAL

disk non flatness and non centeredness   WHERE THE ERROR IS BIG THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE PRODUCT.  THERE AREN'T MANY OFTHEM BUT RETURN OR DISCARD WHEN YOU GET ONE.  SMALL AMPLITUDE WARPS OR CENTREING ERRORS ARE INAUDIBLE.  THE VERY SHORT LIGHTWEIGHT ARM ON MY AEROARM PARALLEL TRACKER WILL RIDE ALMOST ALL WARPS

arm angle and weight correction   JUST SET IT UP CORRECTLY, FOOL

wow, flutter  ALMOST NON EXISTENT THESE DAYS AND FAR LESS OF A PROBLEM THAT CLOCK ERROR.  INCIDENTALLY THIS IS JUST REPETITION OF ROTATIONAL SPEED ERROR, ABOVE

rumble   NON EXISTENT THESE DAYS

translating mechanical movement into a tiny delicate electrical signal  HAS BEEN PERFECTED

problem of stereo separation  WHAT PROBLEM?  30DB IS PLENTY.  IT ACTUALLY REPRESENTS THE LATERAL BLEED OF THE SOUND IN A LIVE SETTING FAR BETTER THAN THE BRICK WALL 90DB SEPARATION IN DIGITAL.  STEREO IS ONLY AN APPROXIMATE ALGORITHM OF THE LIVE EVENT WHICH CERTAINLY DOES NOT PRESENT ITSELF AS TWO SEPARATE SIGNALS WITH NO BLEED.  IT CAN BE ARGUED THAT MORE CHANNEL SEPARATION GIVE A POORER REPRODUCTION OF THE LIVE EVENT

the need for great amplification   I THINK WE'VE PERFECTED AMPLIFIERS BY NOW

introduced noise floor  WHAT IS THAT?   ALL SOUND REPRODUCTION SYSTEMS HAVE NOISE FLOORS

reversed RIAA correction .  SEE ABOVE.  THIS IS MERELY THE REVERSAL OF THE ATTENUATION AND AMPLIFICATION PREVIOUSLY APPLIED.

Funny, the original post started on quality of the pressing and finding the best version, then digressed into analog being so much better which most of the thread followed. 

I am 100% digital and find myself grappling with the first problem - finding the best digital version of a recording. Sadly there are few resources to help with this and it seems mostly a crap shoot, but for my money a lot of the original CD releases seem the best. 'Hi-Res' "Remastered" DSD or 196/24 often are not an improvement over the old redbook version, and just as often are far less pleasant to my ears.

Perhaps the underlying reasons for the SQ variability in digital are different, but it seems to me that a lot of it starts and ends in the studio. Still, vinyl or digital - I think that we are all on the same path of finding the best recordings to enjoy.

Happy hunting!