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Tone controls -- assuming you're ok with them, when would you try them?

So, I'm learning and experimenting w/ speaker/sub placement. I've had some success. Presently using my old Adcom GTP-400 preamp (treble, bass, and loudness/contour controls). It's likely my next amps won't have tone controls (nor balance). 

Beyond compensating for old/bad recordings, I realize there is, nevertheless, a standing debate whether tone controls are worth the (likely) sound degradation. Imagine that debate was settled and tone controls were deemed worthwhile, overall. IF you'll stipulate to all that, my question is this:

QUESTION: If the sound is not right in your room, and you've placed speakers as best you can, what do you try next? At what point do you go for tone controls?

Perhaps some just go for tone controls from the get-go…happy to hear from you all, too.

FWIW, I saw this nice list from @erik_squires on this topic:   
erik_squires8,293 posts
08-19-2017 11:06am
Tone controls help us compensate for differences in recording trends across decades of recordings.
Tone controls help us adjust our sound quality to different listening situations and volumes.
Tone controls help us adjust for speaker placement.
Tone controls are much cheaper and more efficient way of doing this than most other solutions.
A good tone control is a lot easier to implement than a good equalizer. Fewer bands so more affordable to use high quality parts.

128x128hilde45
4krowme's avatar
4krowme
542 posts
 
As so many have mentioned here, the room is to be dealt with first. Unfortunately most audiophiles are lying to themselves about speaker placement and room treatment. Tile floors, glass sliding doors, and speaker pushed into corners tell me that the first attempt wasn't made. 
 The use of tone controls should com After that. So now as others have also mentioned, tone controls themselves can be a waste of time, at least in you acoustical environment/system. Bass and treble turnover frequencies are not able to be selected like on the old Yamaha gear, for example. In the past, JVC used a set of 5 tone controls. Maybe good.
heliotrope132
9 posts
 

a standing debate whether tone controls are worth the (likely) sound degradation

Which is a silly debate when the mixing console your music was made on has tone controls all over the signal chain. If the circuit is designed well, the tone control won’t ruin your sound by running it flat. Also saying you should at no point need tone controls is like saying I will only ride a bike with no brakes and adjustments because I am that much of a purist that even having the option to stop or enhance the experience to my liking as needed ruins my pure experience. Laughable logic.

tomic601's avatar
tomic601
12,879 posts
 

microphone selection is the first tone control in the recording chain…….

vinylvalet
890 posts
 

All the time since there is no perfect room and therefore, even if you are the best set up guy in the world and have added reasonable acoustic treatments, EQ for minor, final fine tuning is icing on the cake. Every LP and CD you own has been EQed many times before it hits your home; no debate like you find among audiophiles in the recording/mixing/mastering industry.

I'm saving for a Manley Massive Passive (I can also use it in my studio) for analog and I do my final EQ for digital using the EQ and room correction algorithms in my Weiss DAC501.

IMHO, the Schitt EQ products are a gift to all audiophiles. The Lokius with six bands is where I would start. I tell everyone who will listen to pick the one in their price range, play with it for a few weeks and return it if it isn't for you. Nothing to lose and a lot to gain.

This will horrify dealers though. In many cases trying EQ is likely to stop the silliness of trying to EQ your system with cable swaps, component swaps, funny things that go under other funny things and so on.

I'm beginning to think that the elimination of early tone controls (yes, I know, cheap parts, bad circuits but why throw the baby out with the bathwater) was a savvy idea in the early days of high end to keep folks changing gear when all it would take is a few turns of a few knobs.

Anyone that can't/won't optimize speaker and listening position per Jim Smith's Get Better Sound or any other tried and true method must try one of these. I insist. Cult leader Jason Stoddard can thank me later.

vinylvalet
890 posts
 

BTW, the tide is turning. I’m seeing more and more very well designed EQ functions in modern line stages. One example would be the Zesto Leto. Included is a six position, remote controlled "Presence" control. No getting around it, some recordings are going to be edgy, aggressive or bright because someone wasn’t doing their job properly during tracking, mixing or mastering. A very nice and useful feature. Interesting to note the designer was a well regarded recording engineer for many years while the rest of us were being brainwashed through these audiophile forums.

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