2. amps-preamps
  3. 175407-20253

Let me end the Premp/Amplifier sound debate ...

I'm old enough to remember Julian Hersch from Audio magazine and his very unscientific view that all amplifiers sounded the same once they met a certain threshold.  Now the site Audio Science Review pushes the same.

I call these views unscientific as some one with a little bit of an engineering background as well as data science and epidemiology.  I find both of these approaches limited, both in technology used and applied and by stretching the claims for measurements beyond their intention, design and proof of meaning.

Without getting too much into that, I have a very pragmatic point of view.  Listen to the following three amplifier brands:

  • Pass Labs
  • Luxman
  • Ayre

If you can't hear a difference, buy the cheapest amplifier you can.  You'll be just as happy.  However, if you can, you need to evaluate the value of the pleasure of the gear next to your pocket book and buy accordingly.  I don't think the claim that some gear is pure audio jewelry, like a fancy watch which doesn't tell better time but looks pretty.  I get that, and I've heard that.  However, rather than try to use a method from Socrates to debate an issue to the exact wrong conclusion, listen for yourself.

If you wonder if capacitors sound different, build a two way and experiment for yourself.  Doing this leaves you with a very very different perspective than those who haven't. You'll also, in both cases, learn about yourself.  Are you someone who can't hear a difference?  Are you some one who can? What if you are some one who can hear a difference and doesn't care?  That's fine.  Be true to yourself, but I find very little on earth less worthwhile than having arguments about measurements vs. sound quality and value. 

To your own self and your own ears be true.  And if that leads you to a crystal radio and piezo ear piece so be it.  In my own system, and with my own speakers I've reached these conclusions for myself and I have very little concern for those who want to argue against my experiences and choices. 

 

erik_squires
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rauliruegas
13,108 posts
 

Dear @holmz  : Nothing really new down there. Remember the vintage Sansui japanese electronics manufacturer ( I owned before Luxman c-5000 ).:

 

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sansui/super-feedforward-system.shtml

https://audio-database.com/SANSUI/amp/au-d707f-e.html

http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/sansui-au-d11-332.html

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sansui/products.shtml

 One of those papers says technology came from 1928. I remember that I like the Sansui electronics ( I left Pioneer for Sansui. ) but nothing more than that.

Remember the Halcro DM58?. Here some of its specs:

 Solid-state monoblock power amplifier, with active power-factor correction. Inputs: 1 unbalanced, 1 balanced. Output power: >200W into 8 ohms (23dBW), >350W into 4 ohms (22.4dBW). Distortion: at full power output, all harmonic distortion orders <-114dB up to 20kHz (<4000 parts per billion or <0.0004%). THD: <-128dB at 1kHz, or <400 ppb. Intermodulation products: all <-114dB relative to power output    """

 

 

R.

 

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,108 posts
 

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,108 posts
 

Did you listen the Sansui or the DM58? I did it but never the Benchmark.

R.

holmz's avatar
holmz
2,328 posts
 

@rauliruegas if you say that they are all sounding different with the same speakers, then I’ll defer to you… as I have not heard them.

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rauliruegas
13,108 posts
 

Dear @holmz  : What you and other technical oriented gentlemans posted here means that if we take the Sansui, the Halcro, the Benchmark and Devialet amps and we listen to all in the same system and even that those four amps are way different whole designs using way different active/passive parts/board material/layout and the like we will listen no difference in the room/system quality performance. Rigth? I know that no one has Zero distortions but all are just really near of that. 

Now and accepting that " theory  and obviously with out been/experienced in a test like what I mentioned comes/came to my mind this question: it's that " fact " what we MUSIC lovers and audiophiles are looking for or what need we to be in an audio system true " heaven "? ? ? !!!

I think that exist several questions or even maybe more questions than answers around that " zero distortions " units behavior and those questions could be not necessarily technical oriented even that we can't " close " our eyes if exist clear and precise technical evidences/tests.

That question in other way: could any one of us imagine or think think how will be the high-end on each of us home systems with electronics that performs the same. Advantages or disadvantages? and what could happen with all electronic items manufacturers?

Yours point of view certainly are welcomed . holmz and the OP ?

R.

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