DIY TT

Dear @fsonicsmith  : There is no real contradiction. Over the time we learned in different audio subjects and I learned ( not because SAT but way before) that 12" tonearms in reality does not helps to the cartridge job, the 9"-10" tonearms can control in better way resonances/vibrations developed during play and that's why I sold almost all my 12" tonearms including the SAEC WE 8000 and the 506 even that these ones are really good looking " boys " but that double-knife bearing is not the best for LOMC cartridges and it's not my " voice " Dr. Sao Win that manufactured TT/tonearms/cartridges puts a warning in the operation manual of its LOMC cartridge ( truly good performer ) against the knife bearing with its LOMC cartridge, I owned that Win cartridge and time after sold it I really regret that decision.

The long arm wand in 12" arms develops higher resonances/vibrations/feedback than in shorter arms. Yes, the 12" arms performance are for some audiophiles a better quality and " rich " performance levels than the shorter but the true is that what those gentlemans as you like in the 12" are its higher distortons, nothing wrong with that and there is a " problem " with 12" tonearms and is in its cartridge/tonearm alignment parameters because when we make that cartridge/set up always exist the possibility that we made it 100%  accurated and the      tiny errors in the alignment set up in the overhang/offset angle/P2S and the like goes higher in a 12" tonearm than in a 10".

In theory the tracking distortionn in a 12" is lower than in a 10"-9" tonearm and we audiophiles always look that as an advantage but how much lower is that error in the 12"?

well the average distortion in a 12" is 0.31% and in a 9" is 0.38%. Maybe you can detect that distortion difference of 0.07% but certainly what you and any one can detect is the distortion between both tonearm groove after groove that is around at 0.0025% but that it's changing at each tracking groove. So in reality that distortion advantage in a 12" tonearms has no influence in what we listen and the disadvantages in the 12" certainly we can listen it.

But I have no problem with what you like it.

R.

Dear @holmz : Yes, you are rigth I need to understand your whole " scenario ".

The SOTA is a decent unit, Iowned the Star one paired with the ETtonearm tha was the fashion in those old days. Btw, I like that Garrot that’s better that we could think.

If I was you what I do will be to put on sale your today TT/tonearm and go for a really solid alternative that in some ways is even better than the Denon DP80 option and I’m refering to the Micro Seiki DD units where the one in the link is the MS top one that permits almost mount " all " the tonearms you want it and where you have to make nothing about plinth or any other modification . Well maybe a TT mat alond the Basis Audio clamp. In reference to tonearms I will go with today ones as Reed, OL or Kuzma and with the AT ART cartridge series but if you are biased for Hana then the Umami one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/393561597001?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5ba2196449:g:tQcAAOSwah5hOc89&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSU8qUIAeVPdz29zRlje3LgxPcI04nprdpG8GsKrdqfjCEPmCJbgykNJZHl90RL%252BgTLtbIaX6exWL%252BNH5r9dKSzx25UP63dGjPXrAnRbbyb2To8t2BR%252FUJZa5bVzHn1bEHuabYMRhoLBWTgUSQJfsGwFEC8eLKktwVVwThqk1MsMHEm%252BU0jqUSoW%252FwGMl1UI2MEixwQr6PLAMGD8ON%252BhtyN%252FCls3%252FVKyVlcbd8J1zwuaLWyk1zgfqmb8Ii6ihesH48MNq8whQnV%252F3parKGjxuNVWHmy65yEA4XfbwY7a%252BwalRIx4cwcw2BU1eBdjfruxF%252FDWVapJ%252BtsG31rHQMbXG%252BuvSjZ3abyuwSqWk3Z8j91dldZCzYBGRelZ2RyBGT188c4AR5Pa0MKP570CiXcGDR0GSfChHLjPir1Ij0y5h7bV%252FlUNapFDCce5HYc3lbrfJoUwBeik9dhPFZXR9WnezoQygJWwPJ3uYr6V5saQgHgRZF%252Fh2yfgeCOScuSmH8ZM6oaQDnHCiEaByGQyLbP1ahTeF%252F3Mv9ZwbR6vLumta3ypBeKrTVnrCVG1hE3adWFDiW3LVWblZ3ojKZG97Q6sGOfIl5RjasgioFNmEPL%252BPjgsO83xBQQRwJMMRh8kr7rmwRoLBtzH8w120unqWYukdPpwR0OXDsMkq5F2TzVMZMAlqSLzY0Dfmk2C%252BhrYNgMvZ2nR%252FP9kZvhjdaNLpmPxq%252FKxR2wTjAJmW388pgoNxQn5R3NWsvMEzc6g0kG1vOv1nB4yCQP%252FNHza2oJvDOnpsLd5I7yOi1XSRHZtzPy%252BMwvn%252FZXd3tr3BV%252BBIEiRcnUVzik6YPV%252FEoPyXWlS5ZqqBdHA%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMqIOL3PNf

Well, that's me.

R.

Raul, is that really you?  Most persons who have examined the M-S DD units up close (I have not) come away with the conclusion that they are not well made, in sharp contrast to their behemoth belt-drive models, but most of all you (and I) have not liked the idea of mounting a tonearm over a footer, thereby assuring that environmental disturbances are radiated right into the tonearm pivot.  Sure, there are possibly better DD TTs than the DP80, but I don't agree that the DQX1000 is one of them.  Not everything made by M-S is pure gold.  Also, to Holmz, the DQX is the only one to consider among the M-S DD TTs, because the Q indicates a quartz-referenced servo control.  The DDX models do not have that feature.

Pindac, If you ever again to see a DP80 with an optional gun metal platter, I would greatly appreciate it if you would call that to my attention; I am very curious as I have never seen it or read of it.  Moreover, the DP80 is basically a "lightweight" platter design, relatively speaking.  The Denon literature makes a big deal out of the split in the platter, between inner and outer elements held together by shock absorbing bridges.  It is difficult to imagine how gunmetal as a build material would fit into their split-platter strategy.  I certainly may be uninformed, and I am always curious to learn something new.

Dear @lewm : I don’t care what other people that I don’t know could tell about but I have first hand experiences with the M-S DD units and it’s not that way. You are only " speaking ". Good.

In the other side I have and owned the behemoth BD M-S and are bad performers but the SZ-1. Yes, very good looking but in reality are TTs over regarded. Only a first hand experiences with opinion.

Btw, @holmz , if you like the DQX alternative that auction ends in around 12 hours. Here read the flyer that have interesting information on this TT:

R.

The OP I hope does feel there is time on their side and they do not have t rush into their decisions to acquire a TT.

I have made the Aurex SR 510 known and the information below are Copy and Pastes from the user of one that guided myself towards the model.

We have shared private mails on the TT Subject as well and there is not any  reason to suggest their assessment is incorrect. 

When the statement is made the TT is comparable to a MS RX 1500 TT, there will be a truth in this.

That is a £4000 - £7000 MS TT being slip streamed by a TT that can cost £6800 less.

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Toshiba Aurex SR 510 drive with 12" Thorens tonearm.

The Toshiba drive was supposed to compete with the Technics SP 10 at the time is now and again at fair prices in the bay.

The weak point was the original tonearm at that time, and nowadays the integrated PhonoPre is no longer needed for the "special" Toshiba systems.

Greeting

Juergen

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Now that I've played around with various off-the-shelf tonearms,       I kind of like a straight arm next to the direct drive motor unit, especially when it's a 12' arm.

I tried a Thorens TP92 12' tonearm in one of the existing "parking lot" holes on the side of the headshell to check whether the possible tonearm height fits. The direct drive unit is quite high and the wooden chassis is quite massive.

(I unscrewed the black aluminum cover)

My Thorens TP92 12' arm has continuous wiring that has to be soldered underneath the tonearm base, which fits perfectly with the existing cinch sockets of the Toshiba turntable.

With my other tonearms with DIN connection I would have led out a separate cable, but I like it better that way.

Maybe I'll have the built-in phono preamplifier overhauled, you can bridge it, since the Toshiba has 2 pairs of cinch outputs.
 

However, the Thorens TP92 in 12' is quite heavy with an effective mass of 21g, which somewhat limits the selection of possible MM pickups (the integrated PhonoPre is only MM), but a JICO SETO HORI MC system could work, since this is a high output MC system goes through and likes medium to heavy tonearms.

Hopefully it will be a bit colder again soon, then it will be even more fun to work on the lathe.

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the Toshiba SR 510 also plays with a friend of mine and doesn't need to hide from a Micro Seiki RX-1500 with Koetsu tonearm standing next to it. Thanks to the interchangeable headshell, the comparison (with the contemporary Yamaha MC-9) can be made quickly.

With my SR510, unfortunately, the original tonearm can only be repaired with (for me) greater effort, insofar as the assembly of a modern tonearm in the 1000 EUR class.

The TP92 tonearm is mounted reversibly, if you want to mount the original arm again, this can be done optically and technically without any difference to the original, since the Thorens TP92 hole is covered by the (black) original tonearm base (see pictures).


In fact, it would have been possible to have a frame for the Toshiba direct drive drive built on the basis of a Technics SP10 frame, for example. But in terms of price, it would make the project unnecessarily expensive and since the original frame can still be used "originally", ie it is not damaged by the additional drilling, I went this route.

On one of the next cool days I will devote myself to connecting the tone arm.

Greeting

Juergen