DIY TT


I am looking at the Denon DP-3000, which appears like it might be able to slide out and mount into a homemade base?

Basically I am looking for a dual arm setup.

Also my existing TT only takes 1 arm, and it is limited in which arms lengths it can support. 

Or are there other drive units which might be better suited to such a scheme?

128x128holmz

The OP I hope does feel there is time on their side and they do not have t rush into their decisions to acquire a TT.

I have made the Aurex SR 510 known and the information below are Copy and Pastes from the user of one that guided myself towards the model.

We have shared private mails on the TT Subject as well and there is not any  reason to suggest their assessment is incorrect. 

When the statement is made the TT is comparable to a MS RX 1500 TT, there will be a truth in this.

That is a £4000 - £7000 MS TT being slip streamed by a TT that can cost £6800 less.

__________________________________________________________________

Toshiba Aurex SR 510 drive with 12" Thorens tonearm.

The Toshiba drive was supposed to compete with the Technics SP 10 at the time is now and again at fair prices in the bay.

The weak point was the original tonearm at that time, and nowadays the integrated PhonoPre is no longer needed for the "special" Toshiba systems.

Greeting

Juergen

______________________________________________________________

 

Now that I've played around with various off-the-shelf tonearms,       I kind of like a straight arm next to the direct drive motor unit, especially when it's a 12' arm.

I tried a Thorens TP92 12' tonearm in one of the existing "parking lot" holes on the side of the headshell to check whether the possible tonearm height fits. The direct drive unit is quite high and the wooden chassis is quite massive.

(I unscrewed the black aluminum cover)

My Thorens TP92 12' arm has continuous wiring that has to be soldered underneath the tonearm base, which fits perfectly with the existing cinch sockets of the Toshiba turntable.

With my other tonearms with DIN connection I would have led out a separate cable, but I like it better that way.

Maybe I'll have the built-in phono preamplifier overhauled, you can bridge it, since the Toshiba has 2 pairs of cinch outputs.

 

However, the Thorens TP92 in 12' is quite heavy with an effective mass of 21g, which somewhat limits the selection of possible MM pickups (the integrated PhonoPre is only MM), but a JICO SETO HORI MC system could work, since this is a high output MC system goes through and likes medium to heavy tonearms.

Hopefully it will be a bit colder again soon, then it will be even more fun to work on the lathe.

__________________________________________________

 

the Toshiba SR 510 also plays with a friend of mine and doesn't need to hide from a Micro Seiki RX-1500 with Koetsu tonearm standing next to it. Thanks to the interchangeable headshell, the comparison (with the contemporary Yamaha MC-9) can be made quickly.

With my SR510, unfortunately, the original tonearm can only be repaired with (for me) greater effort, insofar as the assembly of a modern tonearm in the 1000 EUR class.

The TP92 tonearm is mounted reversibly, if you want to mount the original arm again, this can be done optically and technically without any difference to the original, since the Thorens TP92 hole is covered by the (black) original tonearm base (see pictures).


In fact, it would have been possible to have a frame for the Toshiba direct drive drive built on the basis of a Technics SP10 frame, for example. But in terms of price, it would make the project unnecessarily expensive and since the original frame can still be used "originally", ie it is not damaged by the additional drilling, I went this route.

On one of the next cool days I will devote myself to connecting the tone arm.

Greeting

Juergen

@rauliruegas Then I fabricate some tone arm holders and mount them onto one of the 3 feet?

@pindac do you have a link to Aurex - somehow my search is coming up empty. Or maybe I need to change the search location to Denmark ?

Dear @holmz  : Fortunatelly you don't need to fabricate nothing. In the ebay TT link in the second photo you can see one tonearm board, that unit already comes with one arm board and in ebay you find out more arm boards for 12",10" or 9" tonearms. Here one of those M-S boards:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/393976742387?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110002%26algo%3DSPLICE.SOI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D237733%26meid%3D43c5d0661f904a6c8ddbcbcb6bc38375%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D393561597001%26itm%3D393976742387%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPromotedSellersOtherItemsV2WithMLRv3%26brand%3DMicro+Seiki&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A39397674238743c5d0661f904a6c8ddbcbcb6bc38375%7Cenc%3AAQAGAAACEPGiYQGK9r6BFR%252BsDJFfclQ8zcA1UrNzy5jCwHqMDALFRw5oaMCOpYhs3%252FlcWfc0FxAtTA2RK3lj0MgvVtc0p4bRjCatrdJBpSMRYzTSKs4mglOVL1gjI8clNPE%252FUoLdrIOfUpMlQshZnAon7W3F%252BIcIkHBQYiRSXriPrZ%252FL1HnJr4hhavOVKF53os%252B1aUXnMZOEPmA1WgO5ZcnKX19wI8NLC0zRoZ2QmCRYLO6%252BQaM%252BhjXnWkbGMFkmlrxKpH8rRVaGRA1vCQ34gWOAAHSPu6mNcxm4Jkiil8FfspIiyABJzlNN%252Fi5ByNrrx3m0Eacj6KB%252FsdVeNU%252F1GO8Y9nPP2qfr%252Fw8URG2dF%252BpE7UejLBPakHDwBQpmX4QjcelDedwXnfNAgRP%252Bav8xjsXhXj9kv563UoI4sLY7%252Fj1Bf1j7EY4%252Bwh77FzsIr4FBIO3iR4ZFODoJ4FJALX7cKAVXij1Ek3I6lZzULUw5N6Pwc%252FrH9OauEzvvgpuIPsB22WqvT9sEdOJrKztDnRLYAQ%252BQpiIzf18%252F0Ay4TJPRo9AleQnq9km42MY%252BjmSqulXc%252B%252BfAKDal3jYIBk3CkLFcHFx0i0HyvPd6yfT4YMsFsu89KUydn9qcjoosis7Oo%252BcyZRK7fBTwHAJWHK%252FhNvQMjqKTmp2X85%252FG3tGivzq0d%252FGDv3zYlOadMPxClbUDExkHNBvM%252FhM5ag%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=847663933

 

In the other side here the SP10 specs:

Direct-Drive
Motor : brushless DC
Speed lock : Quartz-Locked phase control
Platter : Ø 32cm / 3kg diecast aluminium
Startup torque : 6kg /cm
Starting time : 0,25s (33 1/3rpm)
Load characteristics : 0% up to 5kg /cm
Speed accuracy : ± 0,002% (10MK2)
 
Wow & flutter : 0,02% WRMS (JIS C5521)
± 0,035% (peak, DIN 45507)
S/N ratio : 86 db  ( DIN-B )

 

Here the Toshiba 510:

Type : AC servo motor
System : Direct-drive
Speeds : 33 1/3rpm
45rpm
Wow & flutter : 0,03% (WRMS)
Pitch control : ± 4%
S/N ratio : 60dB
Platter : 30cm / 1,2kg

 

 Ignorance is the " mother of all wars " and that Juergen just had no idea of the Technics units, especially the SP10s radio studio designs. . You can take a look to the difference in the platter weigth of each unit, way different. Technics is in a different league as the DP80 or the M-S DQX.

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/toshiba/sr-510c.shtml

 

R.

 

@holmz  : I posted information on vintage TTs only because you asked for that Denon 3000 but today TTs are very good designs, cmes with full warranty and you always can fabricate stand alone tonearm tower board for a second/third tonearm. Even some today design comes with the option of two arm boards where you don't need fabricate nothing at all.

You need to take a look to today units by: SME, Avid, OL, Kuzma, Reed, Sota, Clearaudio, Rega, Technics, SAT,  etc, etc. Try to visit its web sites.

So, today TTs are an excellent option too and in some way the better option.

Obviously it's up to you .

R.

 

 

There are probably 100's of Thousands of TT users of which a Large Proportion are types who do not know much of anything about TT's, apart from the need to level one, and have a Tonearm > Cartridge set to a particular geometry.

These types will I assume all be quite adept at replaying vinyl and useful disciplines to be maintained.

Within such a group a smaller proportion 'might' care to know a little more about their TT's such as the design for speed stability, torque, and the correct matching of Tonearm > Cartridge and maybe even consider the correct loading requirements for a Cartridge.

Within the smaller proportion there are a much smaller proportion and very rare type, that obsess in a manner that is a Polar Opposite and even does not seem to have any interest in taking part in the enjoyment of replaying music.

The whole attention is appearing to be focusing only on the the mechanics and electronics and not at any time reflect that the ownership of a HiFi System is basically about replaying music recordings and enjoying the moment.

I have travelled to meet many like minded individuals and throughout the years, during this time, I have encountered what is in my assessment the odd obsessional type, and I have found it to be best practice not to engage to much, as the fun of the days events can easily be obscured by excessive laborious Tech Talk.


The OP has requested that options on TT's are suggested and is working their way through the ones that has been offered.

There are quite a few things been made known, in relation to Plinth Materials to be used for a Design, along with the best configuration on the Plinth for the Tonearm Lengths to be considered.

Designing a Plinth for Two Tonearms is desired and if the Plinth Design was able to support a Longer Tonearm, that would be a future proofing consideration that can be incorporated.  

An alternative if the Plinth Design was not wanted to have a provision to mount a 12" arm or longer would be to use an ancillary that would enable this at a later date. 

The link will show a very recent thread that has discussed ancillary Tonearm Mounting devices, and give the OP a broader insight to how others, including contributors to this thread are expressing their thoughts on the use of such an item

 

I am sure that the OP's good judgement will help them make a choice for TT that produces a replay that is extremely satisfying, even if the TT has a 9",  12" Arm or longer and the performance is 0.025% rumble - 78dB - torque 1.5 kg.cm and not   0.015%, rumble -92dB torque 6.0 kg.cm.

It does seem from the overall input from the OP, they are keen to own a TT, that has a little creativity from their end contributed to the final assembly.

I am yet to see any concern from them for Microns, rumble and Torque available from a Model. 

  If the OP has been considering the Manufacturers Design Intent for a TT of interest.

The following has been supplied by Juergen, who is in  my view a trusted source, and the  Source of other info offered within this thread.   

I think the info' clearly explains a enjoyable experience can be had when replaying LP's and a Tonearm of choice can be added, as long as it is off a certain length.  

Source: Toshiba brochure from the 70s.

Toshiba STUDIO RECORD PLAYER SR-510

1. Direct drive

2. Electronically controlled servo motor

3.2 speed control

4. Sensor switching

5. Spot spirit level

6. Interchangeable tonearm

7. Preamplifier for electret condenser systems

1. Direct drive

Advantage:

In contrast to the previously known drive systems (friction wheel or belt), the axis of the turntable is one unit with the axis of the rotating part of the motor (rotor) in this studio turntable.

That means:

1. The rumbling noises that occur with this drive system are so low that they are well into the inaudible range.

2. Due to the direct power transmission, any slip is excluded; one reason for the exact adherence to the target speed.

3. The ramp-up time, in which the drive gets from standstill to the target speed, is within half a revolution.

2. Electronically controlled servo motor

Advantage:

The voltage level for the motor of the loudspeaker is constantly kept at the desired value by a photoelectrically generated control voltage.

That means:

Any deviation from the target speed is continuously compensated, the synchronization accuracy is better than 1/30,000.

3. Dual speed control

Advantage 1:

The target speed of 33 1/3 or 45 rpm can be roughly checked by means of a light display - too fast, normal, too slow.

Advantage 2:

There is a fine adjuster for each target speed, which can be used to adjust the indicator light (too fast or too slow) within a range of ±4%. The completely exact setting of the target speed is then carried out using the same fine adjusters with the help of an illuminated stroboscope.

That means:

With this ease of use, precise adjustment of the turntable speed has become possible for everyone; without additional measuring devices and also during operation.

4. Sensor switching

Advantage:

Turntable speed is switched by sensors. That means:

Sensors switch electronically without the application of mechanical force, ie only by briefly touching them. As a result, this process is completely free of cracking noises and vibrations.

5. Spot spirit level

Advantage:

A spot spirit level is installed in the housing of the drive, which enables precise sounding during installation with the help of the four spring-loaded and height-adjustable feet.

That means:

Uneven installation surfaces can be compensated with this device.

6. Interchangeable tonearm

Advantage:

The turntable and tonearm were mounted separately in the frame and have no other mechanical connection to each other.

That means:

The S-shaped tubular tonearm of the device with hydraulic tonearm lift and international tone head attachment can be easily exchanged for any other commercially available tonearm. 7. Preamplifier for electret condenser systems Advantage:

As a further component of the drive, a switchable equalizer preamplifier for electret condenser systems is already permanently installed.

That means:

The drive can be operated with both magnetic and electret condenser systems (e.g. Toshiba C-404 SY) without further upgrades.

Technical specifications

Drive: Type of drive: direct Motor: electrically controlled AC servo motor

Speeds: 33'/s, 45 rpm Speed ​​deviations: ±0 Speed ​​control range: ±4% Wow and flutter: ±0.03% Signal-to-noise ratio: >60dB

Platter: 300 mm~, 1.2 kg die-cast aluminum Run-up time: within 0.5 revolutions

Tonearm:

Type: statically balanced S tonearm eff. Length: 237mm

Max. tracking error: +1.5', -0.5° Overhang: 15 mm Tape head attachment: internal. '/2 inch Bearing pressure: 0 - 4 p

Tonearm lift: hydraulically damped Pickup system:

(drive can be delivered fully equipped)

Model: C-404SY

Type: Electret condenser Frequency response: 20 - 50,000 Hz Output voltage: 30 mV Channel separation: 25d13 (1 kHz), 15 dB (30 kHz)

Differences in the sensitivity of the channels: 1 dB

Stylus compliance: 15 x 10-` cm/dyne Bearing pressure: 1.5p, ±0.5p Stylus: EXTEND (special elliptical bevel for reading CD-4)

General:

Mains voltage: 110/120/220/240 V, 50/60 Hz

Power consumption: 14W Dimensions: W 550, D 414, H 190 mm Weight: 12.5 kg

Design: rosewood frame, smoke-colored acrylic cover Equipment: 2 cynch cables, 1 ground wire, 1 puck for singles, 1 screwdriver, liquid needle cleaner, velvet brush for cleaning records