Cartridge Loading.....Part II


I read last night the below noted discussion with great interest.  It's a long post but worth the effort and I found it interesting.

It started me thinking about the amount of loading on my moving coil cartridges.  Years ago I purchased my first MC Cart, a very nice Benz Micro Glider, medium output of 0.5 mV as I recall.  At that time I inquired about loading here on Audiogon.  I was convinced, via discussion, by another member, that 300 Ohms was the magic number, so I thought.

Time moved onward and my second MC Cart is currently a Lyra Delos, again medium output 0.6mV.  Both carts had Boron cantilevers', 6 nines oxygen free copper coils and line contact diamond stylis.  When I set up the Delos I did not change or even consider 'loading' changes.  That was a grand mistake.....

Well, thanks to this specific thread I started to second guess myself . (you can do this when retired and more time is on your hands....)

My take from this recent thread is as follows.  Load at 100 Ohms or at 47K Ohms with a quality MC cartridge.  I opened up my Conrad Johnson EF1 Phono Stage this afternoon.  Found it set at 500 Ohms loading.  100 Ohms is not an available setting.  Damn...All these years I've been running the wrong loading, and on two carts, back to back...  I don't recall why I set the loading at 500 Ohms.  Faulty logic.

I reset the loading to 47K, buttoned things up and called the wife in for a listening session.  Sure as heck both of us noticed the highs were crisper and more 'apparent' than in the recent past.  Not a huge difference, but yes, a difference..  Hard lesson learned!

So, you smarter folks on this site might banter amongst yourselves, but in reality there are those of us, behind the curtains, reading and listening!  I just wish I hadn't wasted all those years listening to the incorrect load setting!

Ending with a sincere thank you very much!!

Lou

 

quincy

Dear friends: Looking to the PM charts that @intactaudio shared with us yesterday I took in count that ( for my self. ) I can measure it too due ( as I posted several times in this forum. ) that I own around 20+ different vintage comercial test LPs from: CBS, Shure, JVC, Stereo Review, HiFI, Vanguard, B&K, Ortofon, Audio Technica, etc. etc.

 

Through them I have 4 tracks IMD dedicated and rigth now I'm talking with some of my audio friends looking for the ritgh phono stage that permits in easy way changes in the cartridge loading because in my unit I can do it unsoldering/soldering resistors . As I said I will do for my self satisfaction and with withness of the gentleman that will share his phono stage for 3-4 hours any day in the afternoon.

 

So " stupid " I'm that having a solution I did not see way before.

 

R.

Dear friends: Looking to almost all my vintage LP test recordings I found out that I have some even sealed as one from Micro-Acoustics and the Ortofon serial 003 that yesterday opened and listen to it.

It's not a test tones and the like but the lovely tracks are MUSIC, this LP is an Ortofon collaboration with the label Opus 3 that in the past ( too ) made 3-4 test LPs.

Well, first than all this Ortofon LP is really good centered with no waves you can detect and even that's a vintage recording not only is a great recording but the LP recorded surface is dead silent, even the band that separates the tracks is dead silent.

 

If you can find out buy it, it's a good investment for you and your room/system set up.

 

R.

On the subject of phono input impedance as it relates to the discussion between Atma-sphere and Intact Audio, one should also keep in mind that every "current drive" phono stage seems to be a bit different from every other "current drive" phono stage, at least on the subject of input impedance.  Most advertised "current drive" phono stages do have a finite input impedance greater than zero, whether that is virtual zero or whatever.  A couple of years ago, I looked at 4-5 different products and the range of measurable input Z was from a few ohms up to as much as 20 ohms.  A unit with a real 2-ohm input Z will probably react differently to a LOMC with an internal resistance of from 2 to 10 ohms than a unit with a 20-ohm input Z, current, voltage or whatever.  The water gets really muddy.  They want to dumb it down for us consumers.

The topic of this thread is cartridge loading and it only makes sense to look at it from the two terminal perspective of the cartridge without concern of the "technology" used to provide that load.   There are two basic extremes of operation of a cartridge.  It can operate as a current generator where the load value is << the cartridge internal impedance or it can operate as a voltage generator where the load value is >> than the cartridge internal impedance.  There is also a fairly grey area inbetween these two extremes where the load value is ≈ the cartridge impedance.  For this basic discussion I think the two extremes need to conceptually be looked at from the ideal with respect to how the cartridge converts a mechanical movement into an electrical signal.  Since it is the source to load relationship that dictates whether a cartridge generates current or voltage it becomes important to determine if changing the load causes any mechanical or electrical change to the behavior of a cartridge.  

 

When operating as a voltage generator the load can easily be modified over a fairly wide range and still maintain the basic principles of operation.  I think most will agree that loads  of 10X the cartridge impedance and up have a cartridge operating squarely in the voltage realm and people will start to cry foul as your load approaches  the cartridge internal Z.  This doesn't have anything to do with actual cartridge behavior and everything to do with the type of amplification that follows.  For voltage amplification the unique case where Rsource=Rload nets a 6dB voltage loss and in the case of microvolt level signals that is huge.  Going to the case where Rload is 1/4 that of Rsource the voltage loss will be 18dB which immediately disqualifies that as an option for many.  The problem with that categoric disqualification is that you are trying to make a cartridge operate as a source of current into a voltage amplifier. The problem has nothing to do with the actual load and everything to do with using the wrong tool for the job.  If the goal is to actually load the cartridge with 1/4 the internal impedance then that load should simply be provided by a current amplifier.  If we want to discuss the effects of loading on the behavior of the cartridge we have to assume that the appropriate type of amplification is used.

The first question that needs to be addressed is in a perfect world with ideal amplification, will a 40Ω cartridge sound the same into a 5Ω load as a 47kΩ load? 

 

The first question that needs to be addressed is in a perfect world with ideal amplification, will a 40Ω cartridge sound the same into a 5Ω load as a 47kΩ load? 

Right up to this point I was in agreement with the prior text of this post. With this question we can safely say the answer is 'No.', assuming that the perfect amplification is voltage amplification. The question cannot be answered at all if current amplification is used.

If that is a static load (IOW, a resistor) then the cartridge will be making 4 orders of magnitude more work! That work has to come from somewhere, otherwise a new branch of physics is created 😉

So it will certainly cause the cantilever to be harder to move (stiffer) and that will affect how the cartridge 'sounds'. It won't affect the bandwidth of the coil in the cartridge at all- but will have an enormous affect on the mechanical aspect as the coil will have become a significant load with 5 Ohms loading it in turn. Also, the output level will be considerably decreased!