2. amps-preamps
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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
rbach
200 posts
 

Crickets.......

viber6
2,448 posts
 

Everyone should read the thoughtful piece in the current Stereophile July 2022 piece by Rogier van Bakel in the "My Back Pages" on p 130 (not online yet). Title--"Quackery, gullibility, and open-mindedness." Rogier is a new contributor who tells of a NY Times journalist who had an epiphany about the medical benefit of his newfound open-mindedness. Parallels are made between open-mindedness in medical and audio experiences.

My detractors are largely close minded about my ideas that conflict with their preconceived notions, or just that they enjoy hate speech. They have NOT tried zip cord or EQ, but protest that my info is akin to deadly blasphemy. I would not object if anyone said, AFTER they have tried my ideas, that they didn’t like such sound. They are entitled to their sonic preferences, and if they made statements such as "zip cord is too zippy, my speaker cable gives me more fullness and bass that I like," I would accept the truth of their observations and understand that my suggestions are not for them. I think that IF Jay tried my suggestions, he may or may not like them in his system, because he likes somewhat different sound than I do.

My friend Steve who represents the excellent GTA speakers and subs, heard my zip cord and Rane EQ in his system, together with me. We agreed on the objective characteristics of both items--greater clarity and more immediate/upfront sound compared to his speaker cable and Pass preamp used in place of my Rane. It was an obvious big difference especially with judicious EQ, which got him wondering about perhaps the best EQ of all, the Levinson Cello Audio Palette. In the end, he went back to his speaker cable and Pass preamp, which suits the tastes of himself and most of his customers. Whatever he likes is fine by me, but he has an open mind.

Jay initiated an important project, battery/inverter as the best route to pure power. As a NYC resident who is bothered at times by poor sound from polluted power, this is an important subject that goes way beyond A/B’ing power amps and such. Ricevs has reconmmended cheap items and claims that they challenge and possibly surpass Stromtanks. I don’t know, since I have no experience obviously, but I don’t dismiss his claims and tell him to get off this thread as so many people here do. I got interested in the Yeti Goal Zero products last year after he mentioned them. I contacted several Goal Zero employees, but they had almost zero experience in high end audio applications. I don’t see ricevs or myself purchasing $100K worth of Stromtanks and several much cheaper battery/inverters to do A/B’s with various electronics. Since Jay already has two of the S-tanks, he is in a position to seriously study this important area. I might purchase a Goal Zero or other products that ricevs recommended. If there is no money back guarantee, I would be out only a few grand for this experiment. Jay has just scratched the surface of this important project, and there is no audio reviewer who has done a proper comparative review. We should put our heads together to try to really understand what and why certain products seem to have a sound. Frankly, I am disillusioned that there is not a single product that does the sought after goal of purity, WITHOUT any drawbacks of introducing sonic flavor. Perhaps the S 1000 is the closest for neutrality and purity, but nobody knows at present.

We need more respectful, intelligent sharing of information, not childish close mindedness. It is OK for someone with other interests to decide to ignore my ideas, provided he avoids verbal venom and adopts silence.

Jay, please avoid the aggressive sales pitch, at least until you have done the comparative study I have suggested and have demonstrated you have an open mind to anything. You have an opportunity to become THE expert on these battery/inverter products, and after much more R & D, be able to recommend products at all price levels, just as you have done for electronics, speakers, stands, cables, etc. There may not exist a product with absolutely the purest transparency and lack of sonic flavor, but you will know the sound character of each product, just as you know about the other ancillary components.

Thank you.

ricevs
1,543 posts
 

Most audiophiles are not hot rodders....tweakers, etc....they want expensive plug and play. There is only one audiophile plug and play inverter.....all the rest are for hot rodders. Jay will never play hot rodding. He wants to have fun....have it easy and make some money.....nothing wrong with that.

Let it go......us hot rodders can have the fun of finding stuff really cheap and great. You are not a hot rodder.....that is why you want Jay to do it for you. I am going to email PS Audio about inverters....maybe they could get rid of their power regenerators and make cheaper inverter units that would beat the Stromtank for way less. This game has just begun......but for the hot rodders......the time is now....Here is a nice 5000 watt inverter that the fan will not come on till its drawing 1666 watts continuous..........so for most of you with even moster amps.....will never come on.....and also a 200 amp hour Lifepo battery to get you 2500 watts of power......2 batteries gets you 5000 watts of power......so much more than Strom. 5000 watt inverter and 5000 watts of super battery for $2400.......add a charger for $200 and you are good to go. Now how much is the 1000 watt Strom?.....something like $16K?

:

 

ricevs
1,543 posts
 

 

viber6
2,448 posts
 

Thanks for all your suggestions, ricevs. I am mostly a plug and play guy, so which audiophile unit do you recommend, or is the Stromtank the only one? The Goal Zero is plug and play.

In Jay’s post of 6/25, 7:58 PM, I found an informative statement by the S-tank distributor--"The quantum (2500) also has a different and better converter than the 1000. The converter is like a power conditioner. It has its own transformer and small capacitors like you would find in an amp."

So we are back to the familiar reality that converters (inverters?) have electronics in them. There is no such thing as a perfectly transparent piece of electronics. We want to remove dirty power artifacts, but we have to live with adding distortions from the electronics--S-tank as well as PS Audio and the units that ricevs mentions. Are added electronic distortions less than the benefits of battery power and the distortions on the power from the wall? Perhaps YES. PS Audio says that wall power can have 5% or higher distortion, and their units reduce it to a small fraction of 1%. A related observation is the benefit of EQ, which vastly outweighs the additive distortions of the EQ’s electronics, in my experience.

The bottom line is that every prospective customer for a battery/inverter should listen to that unit himself in his own system, just like he would listen to any other electronics he buys.  If he doesn't like D’Agostino Momentum types of colorations, he will choose a unit with different colorations that he prefers.  This may have nothing to do with the price of the unit.

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