Why do so many people have problems with bass?

@engineears Quite the dissertation! Sounds to me like you have knowledge and experience in these matters. I’m just beginning to try to tune my bass. My 15” woofers couldn’t reproduce electronic bass, so I got a small sub. Wrong move: all ‘boom’ and no oomph. Depending on the track it either shakes my walls or appears nonexistent. The room is an issue, but I will probably join the ranks of those who live without subwoofers because living with them is hateful, as in I hate the way my system sounds with the small subwoofer in the system. The sub is a Velodyne 8 in (I think) and the speakers are Warfedales W-70E’s with 15 in drivers in case I failed to mention them earlier.

Edit: (Didn’t mean to hijack the thread, just responding to @engineears contribution) Anyway, to the original poster’s query, the reason people have a problem with bass is because it is damn hard to tune it if you’re not hearing what you want to hear. It’s not as simple as throwing a bigger amp at it, you’ve really got to dig to get the answer which may be out of reach in the space you’re in. I’m taking the words to heart that if you’ve got concrete floors (which I have) —forget it! Ouch. I guess I’ll have to move my main system upstairs in my two story frame built-on-a-slab house. 

As another forum member signs off, Enjoy the Music!

I read an article once that described why it is so hard to replicate sounds with speakers. They used the striker hitting a large bell as an example. Listen to the strike in person. Hear the sound resonating in the bell. The bell has a note, but then there are the hundreds if not thousands of other notes not as dominant that are created along with the primary note. Harmonics. A speaker has issues with all of the other notes that are created. Not only speakers, but amps, microphones and source equipment. That is also what is missing with bad bass. You can hear the primary note, but you are missing so much more. The more you can improve your system and room to catch the harmonics of the pluck, the better off you are. A lot of things can mask and smear those harmonics and it takes time to identify and eliminate those causes. That’s why people have trouble with bass.

As MillerCarbon the antagonist/protagonist used to advocate, two or preferable four subs work best.

@daledeee1 : Sadly, I have a full time job and little wiggle room for house calls!

I grew up listening to my dad’s records through a Sansui 5000A receiver and a pair of Dynaco A35’s sitting on Muppet brown inch-deep shag carpet and have been hooked on audio ever since.

Later in adulthood I attended architecture school where we had an entire class dedicated to architectural acoustic engineering for things like concert halls, recording studios, churches, auditoriums, and public spaces like restaurants. It was fantastic and I’m incredibly grateful for the science of sound I learned there. We designed diffusers using math (then built them!) and studied complex modeling software for things like early reflections and bass room modes, including the limitations of that software.

I use an Earthworks Audio omni directional measurement mic and Rew to measure my speakers and their performance in-room by hand.

It’s been a long journey to get here but I am quite pleased with the results!

@theaudioamp In my 2 channel system I don’t need subs to reinforce bass. But my multichannel system uses four subs, one each for FL, C, & FR, at listening height on mass loaded pedestals and a dedicated sub for the LFE channel. I certainly appreciate using multiple subs at a lower levels Vs only one to even out room modes. The single sub in the LFE channel is fine because it isn’t called upon to do anything musical but kick. It’s a big one by Rhythmik and it is quite capable, regardless. I thought about mentioning multiple subs in my earlier post but it was already a dissertation and it was late, so I left that out.

Regarding using software to model bass room modes, the accuracy of your model is only as good as the complexity of the data you can feed it. There is certainly software capable of accurate modeling. You have to create a CAD model of the room geometry accurate down to the stud placement, wall cavity depth, and all furniture with accurate dimensions, then assign material properties to each surface like "5/8" thick gypsum board", type of insulation in the cavity, bonded leather upholstery, etc. Then sure, it’ll work well.

Architects who specialize in acoustically sensitive work like concert hall redesign use software like this. The really good packages have expensive licensing fees and aren’t typically accessible to or affordable by the average consumer. But our university did spring for one in the educational setting. For example, we participated in a project to replace the seating in a venerable and beloved symphony hall on campus with the requirement that we could not change its acoustic signature. A very tall order. That custom software was capable of doing highly accurate plots of the total acoustic picture for any given listening position with high accuracy.

In my post, I just figured pro software with expensive licenses was outside the scope of the discussion here. I apologize if I implied it doesn’t exist. Simpler modelers will give you good approximations, but some in situ measurement, tuning and placement adjustment will be required once you are living with the built system’s deviation from that kind of model.

One example of a dedicated acoustic analysis firm using high end modeling today would be Karofu. (I just did a quick search) I don’t really dip into acoustic design professionally today, so I can’t identify what modeler they’re using.

A course with a unit or two on room acoustics but no practical experience. That would explain the over the top suggestion of needing an architecturally accurate model and professional level modelling software when the response is almost always dominated by simple room modes and placement with that simple knowledge, easily modelled with basic SW will get you far further than guessing. Microphones/SW will tell you how you are doing or present state.

In regards to your sub setup, unless you already have an exceptionally well treated room for bass, a FL, FR, C sub setup, whether floor, listening height, or otherwise makes no sense at all for cancelling room modes. If anything, it is going to make the bass much worse and really stimulate some modes. If you are going to go with the cost of 4 subs, I would be integrating LFE output with music bass management and optimizing overall placement. The subs don’t all have to match perfectly for room mode cancellation.

In fact your whole comment about your stereo system not needing subs to reinforce bass (only a small part of why you should use multiple subs) but your multichannel setup having multiple subs in less than optimal positions is strange..

I won’t say more but will leave to other readers to reach their own conclusions.