Added an SUT...not sure I understood this


I just added a Denon AU-320 step-up transformer in between my AT-OC9XML cart and my ARC SP-14 preamp.  I am glad that the (relatively quiet) hum that had been present before is now gone...and I mean gone...since that was what motivated me to add an SUT.

However:

I sort of expected that I would also experience a noticeable increase in gain.  Specifically, using the 40-ohm (10X) tap, I would have expected maybe a 6-8 dB increase in volume, and more with the 3 ohm tap.  I am not hearing that, and in fact am getting the opposite effect.  This means I actually have to peg the volume control if I want to achieve 95 dB levels at my listening position, something I rarely, but still occasionally, do.

Also, I removed the 22-ohm loading resistor upon connecting the SUT.  I noticed previously that a 40-ohm loading still had the cart sounding pretty bright.  But with no loading and using the 40-ohm tap, things sound natural.  I sort of expected I was going to need to add a 40-ohm resistor (at the tonearm) to achieve the same loading.

All of this confuses me; I'm happy so far with the sound yet perplexed.  Perhaps some good Samaritan here will be able to explain why I am hearing what I am hearing.  in the meantime, I'm just going to enjoy my quieter background. 

woofhaven1992

You are correct in your conclusion, but IMO asking the wrong question.

I am the only one here asking the relevant question in this situation. This all goes back directly to the insistence that something was broken in your system if your cartridge sounds better with a 20Ω load.  The only question I asked (and has yet to be answered) is how does one account for the use of a load well outside a manufacturers recommendation (ie a current amplifier as an extreme example) and still adhere to the wishes of the manufacturer?

In your particular case I trust your assessment that the sound is good and suspect that anyone that insists otherwise based on a published spec is in error.  Who knows I may be he only one with this belief.... it wouldn't be the first time.

I did not  drag this off topic into how current amps differ from voltage amps, others took it there.  I really think this is a simple question that apparently nobody seems to have a good answer to.

dave

 

 

@intactaudio I misunderstood the intention behind your post then.

Unfortunately, the question you have asked has a rather uninteresting answer. Everyone on this thread has been assuming I determined that the best sounding load for my cart was a large deviation from spec, apparently because one participant loudly and repeatedly felt the need to insist I did not know how to read the instructions that came with my cartridge. I have attempted to clear up that confusion by asserting that my cart in fact has a 20 ohm spec, but apparently I don't know whatever secret handshake a person needs to know in order to be taken at one's word on these forums.

But none of that changes the fact that I am loading my cartridge at spec, which might render your question moot. I do agree with you, though, that if I achieved better sound at a different load than that recommended, I would use what sounds best. 

 

@woofhaven1992 

Looks like you've got the wrong cartridge.

You claimed to have an ATOC9XML

Paoerwork here

 

Note the recommended minimum load is 100ohms as I posted.

The paperwork you have posted appears to be from the ATOC9ML/II which is a different cartridge. 

However the 20 ohm recommended minimum loading referred to is the minimum recommended loading when using a step up transformer. The recommended loading for a head amp is 100 ohms. See see up instructions #6.

Here is the paperwork for the ATOC9ML/II

 

In your case your SP14 has a FET based front end, not a step up transformer, and the recommended minimum load is 100ohms.

 

@intactaudio 

Lets get back to the simple question I asked....  If going well below a cartridge manufacturers load is not recommended, how can we reconcile the use of transimpedance amplification or in your case a load that is 1.7X the cartridge internal impedance?

It is my belief that when specified by the cartridge manufacturer the load value range would relate to the behavior of their cartridge and not in response to the unknown capabilities of what follows. 

This is where you go wrong. Loading down a MC produces more current and less voltage. ( explained by Carr above ).

Therefore whether the mc phono input is voltage mode ( as in SP14 ) or current mode  is vitally important because in voltage mode loading down the MC reduces voltage going into the voltage based phono and reduces overall gain.

With a current mode phono, loading down increases current and hence increases overall gain.

I cannot fathom how you cant see the difference between increasing gain and reducing gain.

 

 

I thought it was ok to mention current driven phono stages after the OP himself mentioned it.

what we found was that the SP14 had a 100 ohm resistance across its phono inputs. That coupled with a 1:10 SUT resulted in the cartridge seeing a 1 (one) ohm load. Which is clearly a bad thing and explains the bad SQ.

Per Dover’s point about the two different AT cartridges, I’ve never understood why the minimum load can be acceptably different for the same cartridge with vs without a SUT in the circuit. (Maybe not applicable here if indeed we’re talking about two different cartridges.) But you see this among those who use for example the DL103.