Indentical measurments = Identical performance?

ASR recently gave a DAC a junk rating because of 1 reading, distortion at 0.003%. Can anyone hear distortion at 0.003%, no. Tube amps with 0.5% distortion are considered good, turntables would be consider at least OK, speakers are often stated as less than 1% distortion. As a measurement predicting poor performance quoting 0.003% is totally useless , to use as the basis for allocating junk status is ridiculous. No one can hear it, so an average CD or other DACS measure 'better", this is analysis paralysis. 

@henry53 ...+1

When it comes to analysis without presumption, our ears and the mind between is essentially the component that 'measures' badly.

0.003% distortion being 'heard' can only be a product of preconception of the stated measurement...

If one knows about it, 'going in', it has to have some sort of effect on the listeners' response to it....mho, anyway.

Prove me wrong.

asvjerry, I doubt your proposition could be proven right or wrong. If I knew something was 0.0000000003% THD does that mean I can hear it, does it mean I believe I can hear it, or does it mean my expectation is I can't hear it. As probably the amplifier and certainly the speakers have more than 0.003% THD then what distortion can you expect to hear 0.3%. 0.03%. Investigation seems to agree that we could hear 0.5% but not 0.05%, so as we cannot possibly hear 0.003% why would we ever have such an expectation?

 

• Is there agreement and proof of each measurement’s value and the range of human sensitivity?

Is there any proof otherwise? The answer is no.

It doesn’t work that way in science. We do not make someone prove that pixies do not exist, in the same way that we do not make people prove that they’re innocent.

The proof is upon the claim maker, or prosecution, to prove guilt.

• What are the relative merits off each measurement in terms of a broad range of listeners as well as you , specifically?

Is there any proof otherwise? The answer is no.

It doesn’t work that way in science. We do not make someone prove that pixies do not exist, in the same way that we do not make people prove that they’re innocent.

The proof is upon the claim maker, or prosecution, to prove guilt.

But the merits of the measurements are documented in many places.
For instance the high distortion of tube equipment being more pleasing to the ear than much lower distortion of some SS gear.
So yes the relative measurements are not all created equal… and some measurement are harder to do than others.

• We lack measurements which can take into account the ear/brain mechanism as well as self-training of the neural pathways.

Irrelevant as it pertains to preference, not to audibility, which was covered by your first two points, and I will point out again, none proven.

In some sense, if we know the sound field, like a measurement of it, then we could assume that a reproduction of the field should look the same in the time and frequency domain. And the more “sameness” would be higher fidelity than less “sameness.”
 

 

Take a set of published tests from 1972. Now compare them to published tests from say ASR in 2022. It would be dishonest to claim that the 1972 tests are nearly as comprehensive as what is and can be done in 2022. I think the thing mainly stuck in 1972 is audiophiles, not the measurements

Ok lets take 1982, then.
We had many more measurements happening in the 80s.

And so, if put to practice, any 2 digital audio components that have similar enough measurements should sound identical. For example, a DAC with a SINAD or SNR or 120 dB vs one with a SINAD or SNR of 123. Tiny differences in linarity and frequency response above 20 KHz are not audible to us humans anyway.

I am not sure SINAD is all the most useful measurement.
If we are playing tones, then it might be, but we are playing impulsive thinks like drums and other percussion instruments as well.

Secondly if the SINAD is all 2nd harmonic, or all 5th a harmonic, will we hear a difference?

But at some point do the speakers matter? And their contribution to SINAD, or SNR, or distortion products?