2. amps-preamps
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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
zprr
306 posts
 

Just finished the first video finally.

Excellent work Jay and kudos to your filming and video ’crew’. Most professionally polished video on your channel to date imho

That video was jammed with great info. Really appreciated Alon’s explanation of the benefits of a sub as well as the diffraction issue and impact on frequency propagation (now worried about the corners in my speakers lol). He clearly has a gift for design but also was impressed by his articulate explanations on the array of more technical subjects and his passion for it which comes through in a charismatic engineer kind of way. As an engineer, that is relatively rare and definitely a compliment. Looking forward to the next drop.

 

viber6
2,442 posts
 

ron17,

It would be interesting to ask Alon what degree of listening experience he has in concert halls of unamplified music.  My guess is that he likes to sit at a fair distance.  I said it is correct for the listener at such a distance to claim that live music has less HF than a good recording played on a good audio system.  However, he is ignoring the reality of the vastly different HF balances coming from close vs far distances.  I have done enough of these experiments in various halls to make my truthful statements.

It would be a useful exercise if Alon and I collaborated on making a typical good classical commercial recording which uses several microphones hung closely over several sections of the stage, designed to pick up full details of all the instruments, and skillfully mixed for balance, of course without junky processing effects of most pop/rock recordings.  While the performance is taking place, we both sit in the 1st row and in the 10th row, and move back and forth to hear several sections of the music.  Go home immediately and hear the playback of the recording.  Try to remember the 1st row and 10th row sound.  The 1st row will be a reasonable approximation of the recorded sound on an accurate SOTA system WITH extended airy HF.  But on a Magico M3 or M6 that I heard from Jay, the sound will be rolled off in HF.  Now boost HF on the Magico playback of the recording, and the result will be much closer to the reality of HF as heard in the 1st row.  

Alon would never accept my invitation, LOL.  No matter.  I have done all this by myself over several years when I made recordings.  That's how I came to create my system where EQ, especially careful HF boosts tailored to the music and situation are essential.  My experiences occurred when I was much younger and my hearing tests were excellent.  However, if anyone seeks smoothed over sound lacking some HF detail, that's their prerogative.  Just don't be fooled by specious claims that most audio systems have too much HF.  That is merely a statement of their personal tastes.  I don't know if your recording engineer friend recorded classical music or what his sound preferences were.  He may have been used to studio monitors and never heard superbly accurate electrostatics or fine electronics which I own.

The S7 is clearly a brighter speaker than M3 or M6.  I even surmise that someone else at Magico designed it, because it doesn't fit with Alon's tastes.

 

ron17
607 posts
 

@viber6

Alon Wolf played violin at age six, then recorder and classical guitar.  He won several scholarships to a conservatory in Israel, and, after coming to the US, continued studies at the San Francisco Conservatory of Music.  I'm guessing he has a great deal of listening experience to unamplified music from up close, and also at greater distances.  I believe his speaker designs have changed tonally from his first design to his latest M series designs.  When I first heard Magico several years ago I thought they were analytical and a touch bright.  The M series is so different sounding to me....warm, rich yet very detailed.    

As far as sitting in the front row vs the tenth row of a concert hall, I would never sit in the front row....just like I would never sit in the front row of a movie theater.  I prefer a more balanced sound where I can hear all of the instruments equally.  I can understand and appreciate you preferring the first row.  Sounds to me like the S series is voiced a little more tilted to the top end vs the M series, although I would love to hear the M6's with Jay's current setup and Transparent cables....my guess is they would sound closer to the S7's than they did when Jay had them before....only smoother and more refined.  And as far as someone else at Magico designing the S7, I would bet money that you're wrong about that.

Although an older design I would love to see Jay get a hold of a Q series Magico.

viber6
2,442 posts
 

Right.  I remember many years ago, before Magico was born, there were Alon speakers, maybe only 1 model.  I wasn't impressed with what I heard.  

I heard the Magico A3 for $12K a few years ago.  I went to hear the Alsyvox Tintoretto planar ribbons at that dealer, and wasn't impressed at all, especially for $69K.   The A3 was at least as good for its clarity.  Of course the huge Alsyvox had a big soundstage, but who cares if the clarity was mediocre.  This dealer was honest enough to say that the A3 was his best value, and the more expensive Magico series weren't much better.  In those days, I would calibrate my ears at home with my system, but with no EQ, in order to get a reference point for comparison to when I later went to a dealer or someone's home.  Still, the Alsyvox and A3 were veiled and muddy compared to my system without EQ.

It's fine to prefer the 10th row as your sound preference.  However, I have always been interested in understanding the details/nuances in the music as much as possible, and building an audio system with that goal.  Some recordings have a front row presentation, and others have the 10th row presentation.  Microphones are usually placed close to the musicians, and there may be distant mikes mixed in for ambience to get the 10th row sound.  I came to vastly prefer close up recordings, which on my tweaked system sound like the 1st row experience.  The recordings engineers of these close recordings are skillful to keep the musical balance.  With close recordings, all of the instruments have maximum detail and still are well balanced.  However, with 10th row recordings, the balance is there, but all the instruments have drastically reduced musical info revealed.  Kinda like equal opportunity mediocrity, the lowest common denominator for all.  The same goes for live listening in the 1st vs 10th row.  In fact, I have been dismayed at the marked loss of detail even in the 2nd row.  But NOTHING is as exciting as the stage sound of all the instruments, not just my violin.  Most fun were the rehearsals in a church basement where we were all very close.  I heard the focused HF content of mid bass instruments like the French horn that I never appreciated from even the 1st row in the audience.  The conductor was Arturo Delmoni, a famed violinist who made the rounds at Stereophile shows 30 years ago.  Arturo smiled as I said how I loved the tuba's complete full spectrum sound.  On most audio systems, it sounds like a leaden elephant with little HF content.

viber6
2,442 posts
 

I agree about movie theater close ups, with bloated overblown speaker sound.  But unamplified close up natural sound at a sensible SPL is detailed and beautiful.

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