2. tech-talk
  3. 179565-17492

Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy

"Audiophiles are Snobs"  Youtube features an idiot!  He states, with no equivocation,  that $5,000 and $10,000 speakers sound equally good and a $500 and $5,000 integrated amp sound equally good.  He is either deaf or a liar or both! 

There is a site filled with posters like him called Audio Science Review.  If a reasonable person posts, they immediately tear him down, using selected words and/or sentences from the reasonable poster as100% proof that the audiophile is dumb and stupid with his money. They also occasionally state that the high end audio equipment/cable/tweak sellers are criminals who commit fraud on the public.  They often state that if something scientifically measures better, then it sounds better.   They give no credence to unmeasurable sound factors like PRAT and Ambiance.   Some of the posters music choices range from rap to hip hop and anything pop oriented created in the past from 1995.  

Have any of audiogon (or any other reasonable audio forum site) posters encountered this horrible group of miscreants?  

fleschler
rudyb
141 posts
 

OK, time for a question:

Suppose we have an amplifier that measures absolutely perfect, never seen better:

  • 1 - 100 kHz absolutley flat within 0.1 dB
  • 0.00001 distortion
  • perfect square wave and pulse response

Will it sound good? Well ... it has to be the best, cleanest, absolute neutral sounding equipment we ever heard.

But will we like it?

Probably some will, but others may not, because:

  • We’re not used to such a perfect, objectively neutral, sound. Our audio memory is trained over the years and has certain expectations, and this deviates.
  • Chances are a bit of coloration, or THD, or both, may sound more pleasing. Which is why many prefer tubes, or vinyl, with their measurable deviant sound signature.
  • It’s not for nothing that there used to be a ’Loudness’ switch and a Bass & Treble control on amplifiers. These got eliminated with high end equipment because, hey, we do have our pride! But actually, with lower SPL a bit of extra low and high would be pleasing.

Conclusion: perfect measurement results not necessarily mean it sounds pleasing. And, ’pleasing’ is very subjective. Yet, equipment designers will use measurements and will strive for good numbers first ... from there the tweaking may start.

And, if a manufacturer promises improved jitter but measurements show nothing has improved, than that’s a scam.

 

sngreen
36 posts
 

@cd318 

If you want to really get under the skin of the ASR thought police bring up the years of Hi Fi Choice unsighted group test reviews which consistently described significant differences between the sound of components and ranked them accordingly.


You make an excellent point! Impossible to disagree with.

 

elangley01
93 posts
 

If you can’t measure it then it’s placebo effect.

mitch2
3,969 posts
 

@rudyb +1

So yes ... some people are snobs, and over spenders. But hey ... if someone likes to buy it and is happy with his purchase all is well, isn’t it?

And if there are people who like to warn that some ’high end’ audio equipment have false (marketing) claims and some is 100x higher priced than the net worth of the components used, than that’s OK too, isn’t it?

To your questions - yes! and yes! but apparently not with some or there wouldn't be any reason for this thread. 

No sacred cows were harmed during the writing of this post 🐄🐮

invalid
1,187 posts
 

@elangley01

 

Jitter wasn’t measurable once upon a time, but it was definitely heard. Observation is why we have measurements.

More to discover