Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy

@fleschler

Have any of audiogon (or any other reasonable audio forum site) posters encountered this horrible group of miscreants?  

 

No, I just got here.  😁

Someone claimed that on ASR the more you donate, the higher your status. No such thing exists.  Members can donate any amount of money they like.  They will all get the same title. This is on purpose as to make sure you can't buy your way into have more privileges.

Unlike other forums, donating to ASR doesn't get you anything extra *. You don't get exclusive or early access to content.  Everyone sees the same information regardless of whether they have donated or not. Donations are entirely voluntary.

* The only exception to above is that forum donors get to have longer edit time to their threads. This is because we trust them to not be destructive.  It is not done to give them a benefit.

@thyname Thank you for your concern. I haven’t spent much time on this forum and my metal well-being isn’t being threatened. I am a very stable 66 year old music lover. I’ve been a member since 2001.

However, your warning that ASR militia can be possibly dangerous, does that mean physically violent? That means that this bear (ASR) is a radical leftist or rightist group who political affiliation is measurement audiophilia uber alles? Wow!

Now I remember that one member had claimed in another ASR forum that he wanted to go next door and burn his neighbor.   I assumed that burning one's neighbor is a violent act.   He is a well known member.

I also just noticed that someone just signed up to audiogon posting as amir_asr. Could that be the owner of ASR? That is scary!

@fleschler

"Audiophiles are Snobs"  Youtube features an idiot!  He states, with no equivocation,  that $5,000 and $10,000 speakers sound equally good and a $500 and $5,000 integrated amp sound equally good.  He is either deaf or a liar or both! 

By now I hope everyone fully understands that OP got me confused with another youtuber (John Darko). He is the one that produced the video with that clickbait title, I did NOT.

As to the rest, price has no impact on whether something "sounds good" or not. As the risk of stating the obvious, I can make a speaker out of gold and charge a million dollars for it.  It doesn't mean it will sound better. So the example of $5000 speaker vs $10,000 is without meaning in audio.  Products in that price range start to get into luxury range and are often priced to what the market will accept, not what it costs to produce, etc.

A speaker will sound better than another if in controlled testing it shows that advantage, i.e. when you don't know the brand, make, history, looks, etc.  Just the sound.  Failing that, we can use measurements to rule out broken designs and praise the well engineered ones based on latest science of sound reproduction in rooms.

As a general statement though, a speaker that goes lower and plays louder will be more expensive.  So all else being equal, a $10,000 will be better than a $5,000 speaker in this regard.  This is why  I own a pair of speakers that cost $23,000.  It plays extremely low and dynamic in addition to being excellent in other respects.

The example of amps is also dead wrong. An amplifier can sound horrible if it runs out of power.  Or have audible hiss that is annoying.  Sadly you can get a $5,000 amp that is very low power and hence clips. And or have audible artifacts.  Or it can be superb with all the power you need.  The only way you know is again, using controlled listening tests or measurements.  Random opinion by Joe poster online or youtuber may not apply I am afraid.

@amir_asr Either you are or are not the owner of ASR. Either way, my conclusion is based on listening results after measurement (if it can be measured-the CD trimmer can measure some characteristics prior to and post trimming by listening to the CD). Since I do not rely on measurements only, I (and all of my many music loving friends) use my listening skills to determine if audio equipment sounds more or less to my liking. Measurements can be very deceiving both in what is and what is not measured as well as the potential synergy with other equipment and listening room.

The best test of audio equipment is to place it in the room and with the equipment it is to be used with. Aside from that, measurements and physical inspection of audio equipment can provide a basis for comparison and evaluation (such as will it more or less likely to fail in use). It goes without comment that different power ratings of amps and bass capabilities of speakers vary by design and parts quality which can result in lower or higher cost to manufacture.  Unfortunately, just as with so many other products (non-audio) on the market, you don't always receive what one pays for.  There are many shoddy expensive goods in many product categories.  That does not mean everything deemed "too" expensive is bad.  

ASR "militia" cannot differentiate the difference between biographical summary of one’s music expertise versus self-aggrandizement I am no more important than any other audiophile; however, music experience as an amateur recording engineer in major orchestral halls of well over 250 recordings and for the Erich Zeisl (brother in law of Schoenberg) centenary collection of 11 CDs for Vienna, UCLA and USC establish some credentials that my opinion in how vocal, chamber and orchestral music can (not should) sound is evident. I do not have a "golden ear." I just have a lifetime of experience performing and recording/mastering music.

When I conclude that each individual should not rely on measurements only, I am asserting that each piece of equipment should be tested for it’s musical value (not economic) in a specific room with specific equipment. ASR members laugh at anything outside of their sphere of experience and make derogatory remarks of someone’s character if they disagree with neutral statements concerning equipment or experience. If that is you Amir, owner of ASR, you know this to be true.