Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy


"Audiophiles are Snobs"  Youtube features an idiot!  He states, with no equivocation,  that $5,000 and $10,000 speakers sound equally good and a $500 and $5,000 integrated amp sound equally good.  He is either deaf or a liar or both! 

There is a site filled with posters like him called Audio Science Review.  If a reasonable person posts, they immediately tear him down, using selected words and/or sentences from the reasonable poster as100% proof that the audiophile is dumb and stupid with his money. They also occasionally state that the high end audio equipment/cable/tweak sellers are criminals who commit fraud on the public.  They often state that if something scientifically measures better, then it sounds better.   They give no credence to unmeasurable sound factors like PRAT and Ambiance.   Some of the posters music choices range from rap to hip hop and anything pop oriented created in the past from 1995.  

Have any of audiogon (or any other reasonable audio forum site) posters encountered this horrible group of miscreants?  

fleschler

@djones51

I was more an objectivist long before ASR existed so it isn’t surprising to say I have learned a lot more from ASR than this one but I never really considered Audigon as a site to learn but a site to buy and sell and shoot the breeze on forums. Some of the discussions here are interesting but some are outright bizarre, for instance, colored fuses, exotic cabling, magic mats in mains panels to name a few. At any rate adios.

 

I didn’t get such a good start. I went into this hobby fairly clueless. I just wanted a system that sounded good to my ears.

I read magazines and built a knowledge base from that. I even got into the tweakery side once I become a little bored with my Rega/NAD based system.

I remember a fair bit of dabbling with cables, power supplies, speaker stands/spikes on screws, CD players, amplifiers, even putting a few CDs into the freezer overnight.

Eventually the realisation began to dawn upon me that the information I’d read in the magazines was more or less a complete work of fiction.

None of the above made any significant improvement to the sound I was getting. At best they were subliminal differences, nothing more.

Pro audio was always more science based but it never waxed lyrical about products the way domestic audio did. There was little or no fantasy, and being a subjectivist, I craved for that fantasy.

In some ways I still do, except I now understand that systems which are not adept at playing all genres are of little use to me. Those kinds of systems, despite many strengths, tend to have one or two serious flaws.

Sites like ASR will readily point out these serious flaws in a way that magazines will never do. That kind of information can prove invaluable in helping avoid seriously expensive mistakes. That kind of information will never be found in magazine reviews.

At best they are subjectivist entertainment, nothing more. At worst they are little more than a collusive practice with mutual benefits for the manufactures, dealers and reviewers.

Their victim is always the consumer. I should know. I’ve been there, time and time again.

Sites like ASR, Erin’s Music Corner and Archimago’s Musings as well as some Pro Audio publications can certainly help you avoid equipment with serious technical flaws.

There is a good reason why such sites are unpopular with many people, and it’s usually down to vested personal interests

Just look at the mountain of criticism given to blind listening tests and yet hardly a word said against the corresponding sighted tests??

I would implore even the most hardened subjectivist to take with them a wide variety of music with which to test products. You will learn next to nothing with the kind of well recorded instrumental jazz you hear at most shows.

That kind of Muzak does not reveal system weaknesses, it seeks to hide them. Even if that’s all you listen to, you know the old cliche of the audiophile with a million highly subjectivist dollar system who only plays 2 or 3 CDs etc.

Perhaps the best non measurements based test of all is the human voice. There’s a good video from Ditton Works below that tries to make the same point.

 

 

I don't know your backstory @cd318 mine is in the sciences. I fully admit I went through the same as you did. I probably spent a small fortune on audio magazines, tried all the tricks, etc.   I don't consider it a sign of weakness to admit I was mistaken. Is that why some are so ardent that they will not even challenge their own beliefs. They don't want to admit weakness?  Perhaps I could have related to it when I was younger, but today it is very foreign to me. It's a conscious decision to not grow.

@cd318

At best they are subjectivist entertainment, nothing more. At worst they are little more than a collusive practice with mutual benefits for the manufactures, dealers and reviewers.

Re "at worst" I agree. But "at best" they are informative descriptions of the sonic characteristics of the devices reviewed.

I’m not a former/converted subjectivist, however, so I don’t have recovery PTSD to contend with or commiserate over.

Anyone telling you an audio product sounds bad based solely on a THD of 0.003% compared to another product with 0.001% without even listening as to whether that has any effect is delusional. 

Anyone telling you an audio product sounds bad based solely on a THD of 0.003% compared to another product with 0.001% without even listening as to whether that has any effect is delusional. 

 

Are you implying that happens on ASR @henry53 ??  Haven't we had enough hyperbole and lying for one topic already?