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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 

Folks -

The essence may never comeback here. I don’t own it and i don’t plan on owning it again unless someone trades it into me for something i am selling.

With regards to the 3050s being in the middle of my floor, yes they need to be moved back but remember, this is a production to move them. I am a one man show and these amps require your local movers to be removed. I certainly have to accommodate them better but it takes planning - don’t forget that.

@smodtactical

Did you say "at least go back to M6? LoL 😂

That’s a $172k speaker.... You are acting like it’s pocket change or a "whatever " speaker. The M6 has open doors in here but it isn’t knocking at my door so we shall see.

One thing to note is that yes, my electronics outgrew my speakers but to be sincere i don’t want to spend 6 figures on speakers. It is FREAKING HARD to sell expensive speakers and the logistics are insane. If i bring another speaker which will probably happen next year, it won’t be some weird brand or small no name European company.

FACT: it is HARD TO SELL OR GET RID OF expensive speakers and If they are European then it is EVEN HARDER. Most American audiophiles DO NOT want European speakers and if these are expensive speakers then they better be Magico or Wilson. NO OTHER SPEAKER BRANDS sell better on the used market thank those two. YOU CAN TRUST ME.

If i buy a more expensive speaker, more than likely it will be another magico or Wilson. Rockport has been on my mind but they keep escaping me.

If you end up seeing another Wilson or Magico, you now know WHY.

If i get stuck with a speaker nobody wants, Jay won’t be happy and this means I’ll be kicking the hell out of this speaker behind closed doors 😂

I have to be strategic with expensive purchases. The brand name MATTERS because it is one selling point when you want to get rid of it.

Here’s something i didn’t disclose before: l almost bought vivid audio g1 spirit a few weeks ago to replace my s7 and someone beat me to it. Now that i look back, I’m kinda happy i didn’t buy them. I think that is a phenomenal speaker and could have been insane with my 3050s. I had also considered Gamut Zodiacs months ago but again, i need to write my will and find a casket to be buried with it.

Remember, i have to have an exit plan because nothing is here forever and buying something that i know will challenge me to move on from it, is very counterproductive to my efforts and my channel.

Ps: i am ok being buried with the 3050, 3060, 3010 😁 They pretty much trash everything you’ve seen on my channel and they make me look at the rest of the amps i have in my room as if they were puppies or toys... The 3000 series from Boulder makes me have zero motivation to buy anything else.

My mind is like " dude do we have to buy another amp ? We know how that movie will end..."

There's one thing that sucks about the 3050... That is that they make you unrelatable because you won't know of anyone else who owns them. You don't have anyone else to share feedback with. You are playing alone and you have to be ok with that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

kairosman's avatar
kairosman
272 posts
 

@jays_audio_lab it is telling that almost all manufacturers don't want to send you gear for evaluation, that you have to buy the gear is proof to me that the magicos and boulders of the world are so confident of their brands and their clients that they don't need to do anything more, perhaps gryphon and pilium as well, and the rest are simply avoiding comparison because they know they'll come up short.

viber6
2,444 posts
 

kren0006,

I understand your reasoning--

"1. Gryphon Essence has already lost head to head versus Luxman M10x per WC. Ie, that was WC’s assessment, plus the overwhelming consensus of those who voted - 3 to 1. Therefore, why would he go back to a losing (in shootout, per him) amp?"

In terms of popularity contests, you are right.  As for me, I am not a groupie, but I seek some objective truth about what components sound like in the context of a whole system.  I believe that most readers who are here or on other threads want some objective assessment of any component.  To say that listener A prefers X and listener B prefers Y is nearly meaningless to listener C who wants some objective assessment.  For the sake of simplified communication, we often have binary criteria such as neutral vs warm, but the reality is that there are subtle differences and nuances.  In a simplified discussion, Jay and I might say that the neutral camp includes Simaudio, G Essence, Boulder 1161 at that price level, and the warm camp includes Luxman, Constellation.  But go deeper.  From my listening to the video, Luxman is warmer than Constellation.  So Constellation could be classified in the neutral camp, compared to Luxman.  But we don't know whether G Essence is more neutral than Constellation, because they weren't directly compared in the same video or with the same music.  From Jay's and Carlos' comments, we know that the G Essence is more neutral than Luxman.  I speculate that Boulder 1161 vs G Essence would be a challenging fight for the award of detail/neutrality at a similar price.  Even though the prevailing taste on this thread is for warmth, and I do see your point that many listeners who seek warmth wouldn't be interested in this comparison, there are still lots of people who seek neutrality/detail, and they would be interested.

Jay, I respect your efforts and the difficulty of obtaining any product at an attractive price.  On the other hand, it seems like Carlos is an asset to you.  He values some degree of neutrality/detail, and might be interested in whether Boulder 1161 gives him more of what he wants than G Essence.  Mike of Suncoast might be willing to let you borrow his 1161 or even 1160, so you could take it to Carlos' place.  You have given Mike lots of business yourself, and given him more public recognition as a high quality dealer.   Of course, listening at Carlos' place is not as revealing as your system, but when you make good recordings they are useful for comparison purposes.

clearthink
1,421 posts
 

It looks like Jay has locked up all discussion here. A polite, friendly, thoughtful poster mentioned a problem with how Jay has his components stacked between speakers and the comment is deleted it is the same as when we pointed out some of the problems Jay has with his electrical system that led him to promote expensive battery solutions to AC power and things got nasty fast.

I guess if you pay $50 USD monthly to Jay for audio advise you don't want any challenges and that is very strange why have a forum if others are not allowed to contribute?

kren0006
1,859 posts
 

I didn’t read your whole post because it is way too long and I lost interest. I explained why WC will likely not test Gryphon Essence versus Boulder, and immediately thereafter WC confirmed that what I said is correct (that the comparison you wish for will not happen). So all of the wishing is probably meaningless, which is what I assume the rest of your post was about.

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