Audio Science Review = Rebuttal and Further Thoughts


@crymeanaudioriver @amir_asr You are sitting there worrying if this or that other useless tweak like a cable makes a sonic difference.

I don’t worry about my equipment unless it fails. I never worry about tweaks or cables. The last time I had to choose a cable was after I purchased my first DAC and transport in 2019.  I auditioned six and chose one, the Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Euphoria. Why would someone with as fulfilling a life as me worry about cables or tweaks and it is in YOUR mind that they are USELESS.

@prof "would it be safe to say you are not an electrical designer or electrical engineer? If so, under what authority do you make the following comment" - concerning creating a high end DAC out of a mediocre DAC.

Well, I have such a DAC, built by a manufacturer of equipment and cables for his and my use. It beat out a $9,000 COS Engineering D1v and $5,000 D2v by a longshot. It is comparable to an $23,000 Meridian Ultradac. Because I tried all the latter three in comparison I say this with some authority, the authority of a recording engineer (me), a manufacturer (friend) and many audiophiles who have heard the same and came to the same conclusion.

Another DAC with excellent design engineer and inferior execution is the Emotiva XDA-2. No new audio board but 7! audiophile quality regulators instead of the computer grade junk inside, similar high end power and filter caps, resistors, etc. to make this into a high end DAC on the very cheap ($400 new plus about the same in added parts).

@russ69 We must be neighbors. I frequented Woodland Hills Audio Center back in the 70s and 80s. I heard several of Arnie’s speakers including a the large Infinity speakers in a home.

fleschler

@fleschler : arguing about DACs with ASR crowd is a waste of time. Quit it while you are ahead. I was once told a DAC is not even part of the audio chain. Just part of the electric delivery. Just like a power cord, or any cable for that matter, which obviously makes zero difference, all sound the same, etc. A $2 DAC does the job. Or the DAC built in your laptop. 

If it measures superbly, it is preferable to a lesser measuring DAC?

Not necessarily. It would only be preferable to me if it had a certain type of connection or function I needed and I couldn't find something that measured as well or better for less money. From looking at it it doesn't ...so. 

I'm not saying all DACs sound the same but only well engineered ones whose measurements show they are transparent, measure beyond the limits of human hearing and haven't been designed to have a sound signature. Is an ADC in the studio part of the audio chain? Will a $4000 DAC in your home improve the sound recorded through a $500 ADC in that studio? I know that English might be a second language, look up transparent.

So $2 DAC transparent enough? Or do one have to spend a lot more, like $50 Toppings DAC?

 

Some eye popping proof here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/how-good-are-2-dacs

@djones51 

Definition of transparent

 

1a(1)having the property of transmitting light without appreciable scattering so that bodies lying beyond are seen clearly PELLUCID

(2)allowing the passage of a specified form of radiation (such as X-rays or ultraviolet light)

bfine or sheer enough to be seen through DIAPHANOUS

2afree from pretense or deceit FRANK

beasily detected or seen through OBVIOUS

creadily understood

dcharacterized by visibility or accessibility of information especially concerning business practices

 

@thyname what do the $1k, $10k, more $k do extra?

It is possible that there are things like pre ringing that may be happening which help the SINAD, but makes transient response differ.

So if that is happening, then a different test than what is done on ASR would be needed. Or the cheap ones and costly ones are the same, but we think that they are not.
We sort of need a way to determine:

  1. whether they output the same, or if the output differs
  2. and then one can discuss which sounds better.

We have not seemed to pass step #1 so far.
If we believe that step #2 is true, then figuring step #1 is still of some value (IMO).