SUT - electrical theory and practical experience

@rauliruegas

Btw, could be interesting that your friends can ask to EMIA its measured FR due that even that exist audiophiles that just do not care about that kind of measure is really of critical importance and the manufacturer just " dead silence about " and I wonder why because other SUT manufacturers gives that kind of measure.

it seems you are really good at scouring the web and quoting other people and less adept at researching/understanding what other people write. If you click the link provided in this very thread by @antinn on 11/16 you will see the actual measured frequency and phase response of an EM/IA SUT compared to the venerable Altec 4722.

dave

Thanks @intactaudio.  Your SUT has made a big difference in the quality of my friend’s stereo.  It works wonders with his Lyra and Marantz 7C pre. I think my listening impressions had a lot to do with my system, the cartridge and what I like.
I enjoyed hearing the differences but they were not what I expected. I bet if I brought my XP-27 to my friend’s system and swapped out the SUT, his stereo would loose some of its magic.  

Btw, what atmasphere posted was theory that today it just does not happens and all that that you can use balance cable connectuion to the phono stage because th SUT is bs

@rauliruegas Clearly you have no idea of what you are talking about.

Transformers are very good at converting from balanced to single-ended and vice versa. Jensen Transformers does a very good business on this aspect of transformers alone. Most SUTs are built for certain cartridges, and so have single-ended connections, but if the SUT in that box were examined closely, it would be seen that its actually a simple matter to set it up for balanced operation.

Here is how its done: The SUT has a total of four connections, two as input and two as output. There may also be a ground connection, which is connected to the core of the part (not needed if the transformer is bolted in place). You have to identify the input (the primary side) and the output (the secondary side). If you want a balanced input, tie one connection to pin 2 and the other to pin 3. Pin 1 of the XLR will be the case/core of the transformer and is where the ground connection from the tonearm will go. The tonearm cable will thus have the + and - outputs of the cartridge traveling in a twisted pair to pins 2 and 3; the tonearm ground becomes the shield of the cable.

You do have to be careful about phase. If you mix it up, one channel could be out of phase with the other, which will seem like a loss of bass impact (and if your system is very good at imaging, the music will seem to sit in the speakers rather than in space).

Raul, when you have the idea that you want to make someone else wrong, try to resist the feeling to post. Its obvious to many here that when you don’t resist that urge, what you write isn’t correct, with the motivation is really obvious. It does not become you or lend credibility.

Within my local HiFi Group, there are Three Systems regularly used over the past years for HiFi Demonstrations and other Systems are used infrequently as Group Gatherings at the homes are not always achievable.

In recent years one of the regular systems has adopted an earlier generation VAC Integrated Amp', with Built in MM / MC Stage.

A newer member to the Group has the latest Generation of VAC Amplification Imported to be used in their system.

Within this Group, there has been numerous permutations put in place for Cartridge Signal Amplification. Working with Vinyl has proved much more satisfying to experience than the Digital Sources and Ancillaries that have undergone demonstrations, but that is also relative to the quantity of the turnover of Vinyl Source Devices put forward to be compared against the quantity of Digital Source Devices. (For the record I have encountered very attractive Digital devices during demonstrations of the type described above)  

There is a massive amount that can be learned by taking Phonostages and supporting ancillaries to other systems for a demonstration. It is certainly worthwhile making an arrangement, if possible, to try out the XP-27 at the friend's home. 

@mulveling again through your descriptions of how you like to support your Vinyl usage, I can easily identify that we share a similarity in our preferences for managing a Vinyl Source Signal.

I myself prefer a SUT for a LOMC. I also like more than one SUT at hand to suit certain types of replays.

Where we differ at present is that I have not been too focused on reducing the Cable Length between the SUT>Phon', I have usually worked with 70cm (28 inches). From your descriptions I do feel I can get more if I were to shorten the Cable.

Shortening a Cable has not been an unknown to me as being beneficial, it is just that I have toyed with an idea that has run parallel with the idea of cable shortening.

Due to having certain Devices Bespoke produced, I have not been able to get a Chassis RCA Socket Configuration to suit my producing my idea, yet to be realised. I am pretty much limited to the designers Topology for the Parts to be used for the Signal Path, and I am not the one to challenge their design, I am there looking for optimised, and will not suggest a compromise to this being produced from the design, to suit a preference for an RCA positioning on a Chassis.

Here is the idea I have had in mind; it is to use Low Eddy Chassis RCA on the Phonostage and have a New SUT produced with Low Eddy Chassis Connectors. The Chassis Connectors on the SUT are to be positioned on the SUT at a centering to perfectly match the Phon's Chassis RCA Centres.

The SUT will also have the Chassis RCA's mounted on the Chassis in a way that enables the RCA's on both Phon' and SUT to touch without any encroachment from the SUT Chassis and causing impediments, the RCA positioning will also allow for the SUT to be adequately supported.

This type of alignment between the RCA Sockets will enable a Male/Male Low Eddy RCA to be used, to directly couple the Phon'>SUT without a Cable.

The unknown at present is if a Low Eddy Male/Male RCA is offered as a part. Alternatively, if a Low Eddy Male/Male is not to be found, a Male/Male connector using Two Low Eddy Male RCA's can be produced using a wire of choice to connect them and create the functioning part.

This is obviously not a common approach but does create a very short signal path.

When the system is set back up, I will be changing all connectors to Low Eddy, so the idea of the connectors is to stick.

I would be interested to receive any comments on the idea of directly coupling a SUT to a Phon' on the external side, as this gives flexibility in maintaining the exchanges of a SUT's that I like to experience, as well as allowing for something to be experienced a little less usual.   

Dear @intactaudio : The " trouble " is that you mate the owner cartridge to the SUT, so your SUT units are not " universal " and that’s something normally we are not accustom too but even that and through those sample measurements I can’t seen in any a condition where your SUT goes flat from 10hz to 200khz as Denon or 3hz to 300khz as Technics or 5hz to 170khz as Supex or today At that goes 10hz to 200khz at 3ohms.

Btw, you posted:

" When considering phono playback, nothing of value exists below 20hz. "

Really?, now I understand why those measured graphs by you.

@karl_desch Perhaps your friend runs tubes down there but if your 27 is noth good enough then is time for you can think to change it for the EMIA, could be a good alternative.

R.