Powered speakers show audiophiles are confused

 

@mijostyn wrote:

@phusis , trust me on this one. Adding a processor like the Trinnov or DEQX is in no way shape or form a "plug and play" solution. They try to market them as being simple to set up, but if you are perfectionistic they are not. You have to experiment and learn to get the most out of them. It must have taken me 2-3 years to get my TacT tuned the way I wanted the system to sound. Most of this was learning manage the power of such a sonic tool and get the most out of it. It is far more complex and involving than any "active" speaker I am familiar with.

Absolutely agree, it’s a process for sure and not for the faint of heart. Very much worth it, though.

You are right about amps. Any amp can drive any driver, the question is how well. That choice can be made by any knowledgeable person. I do not like my choices being made by other people.

People here seem to make a fuss about amp-driver matching with active configuration in particular, but while it lends a lot more opportunities here it’s also the far lesser issue per se vs. matching an amp with a passively configured speaker. A paradoxical way to assess amp-driver/speaker matching here, if you ask me.

@thespeakerdude wrote:

@phusis , I am not sure we are understanding each other.

I could put the active portion of the speaker in the speaker or in an outboard box. That much is obvious.

Check.

What I can’t do is replace my electronics with anyone else’s electronics. As noted, the connection to the driver may require 4 wires (or more), and only I, the MFR knows the intricate details of what is needed to optimize how that speaker element is driven and I won’t be sharing that. That is I/P.

Should make sense, though not really interested in the "secret sauce." I’ve had my own share of intricacies to dig up - while fairly straight forward coming down to it - getting my own active setup sounding the way it does now, and it’s been a lengthy process I’ve enjoyed, and still does. Every worthwhile permutation in hardware config. potentially requires subtly resetting filter values and speaker placement - no big mysteries there.

The other case I noted is multiple similar elements being driven to accomplish a specific function. That is far more than just adding some external amps to replace internal ones. It is like saying just give me the car, and I will put my own engine in at that point.

You’re making it sound as if using external amps in an active configuration, certainly in my case, is a careless and crude affair, but that’s really only assuming the worst of it while promoting your own business of an inboard solution as that which harbors the best of active. For you information I didn’t replace anything, I merely worked from an outset and over time, a few years by now, have gotten to a place where the amps used, their place in the driver configuration (with quite a few permutations with a range of amps), speaker placement, digital filter settings and overall synergy in my acoustic surroundings forms into a sonic outcome that easily compares to any preassembled and bundled active speaker I’ve heard, and should I say handily beats them in vital areas with the accommodation to physics afforded with an outboard solution - something that inboards can only dream of as per their typical incarnations. And no, it’s not about loud per se..

@kota1 wrote:

per Andrew Jones:

Each amplifier is matched to the driver, and only has to operate over a limited frequency range. It’s operating into a simpler impedance, so it’s not going to have high-current demands. Also, the temporal characteristics of music change with frequency. High frequencies require very little average power, but have a lot of peaks. Bass requires much higher average power, but has far fewer peaks. You can match the amplifier to those characteristics as well.

Nothing here at odds with my own approach to matching amps with driver sections - makes sense. Thanks for posting this.

I like giving this control to the speaker designer to match the amp to the driver because it sucks when you misfire.

How, or to which degree would it "misfire" with an outboard active config. and finding the proper amps for the driver sections here - have you tried it? I mean, it’s not going to blow up. It’s about perspective; matching amps with drivers actively makes for less of a variation between the amps vs. passively, while harnessing the bigger potential of amps used actively. On the other hand an active config. is more revealing with regard to source changes, and cables as well.

I have a beautiful Parasound Zamp but it never got my JBL 230’s to really open it up. Swapped it out for a Carver with more power and tracking down conversion and BOOM wall to wall sound stage.

JBL Studio 230’s, so passive speakers? As I said, with passive speakers the variations between amps and how they’re (usually not) impervious to load differs a lot, while reflecting perceived sonic presentation accordingly.

This is not fun for me to burn cash chasing down a match when I can get it pretty much perfect in a bi-amp (or even tri amp) off the shelf, first try, with a good active speaker. YMMV.

An outboard active solution by contrast isn’t plug-and-play, that’s for sure, but for those willing to invest the time and effort you’ll most likely find yourself very much rewarded, and with a carte blanche slate to work from. IMHO.

@lonemountain wrote:

Many of the amps talked about favorably here use mostly chinese boards built by machines. How that is so much more comforting than a 100% hand made pure analog amp? ATC amp packs are built better than most of the audio gear out there.  There is no magic dust or other hidden process.

Well said. 

One issue is that all speakers (that I am aware of) designed to be driven with an off the shelf amplifier have a cross over that cannot be bypassed to directly connect to the driver. Hence any external amplifier is handicapped by the crossover.

 

From several pages ago @lonemountain ​​​​.  However that's not to say you may not still have some larger passives in the drive circuit of an active speaker but they are part of an integrated solution.

 

 

@phusis when I said misfired it meant mismatched. The Parasound amp is very, very transparent but it didn’t have enough mojo to let that speaker outperform. The 230 is a passive speaker and I really like it. I didn’t know how much I liked it until I paired with the Carver AV505 from the A Series (on the TAS list of 10 most significant amps of all time). This is a BIG 5 channel amp and I only used two channels. The tracking downconverter is like a carburetor, it can move power to channels as called for. OMG, the soundstage opened from wall to wall, floor to ceiling. I was in shock as they never sounded like that before. That was basically luck on my part. For around the same price of that desktop rig I could have gone with these and got room correction too:

r these:

 

You're making it sound as if using external amps in an active configuration, certainly in my case, is a careless and crude affair, but that's really only assuming the worst of it while promoting your own business of an inboard solution as that which harbors the best of active. 

 

Careless? Not at all. Crude only in a comparative sense. I don't think you are understanding the variables that are available though for active speaker implementation. I don't expect a hobby implementation to compete with a large R&D budget so don't take offense.