Shameless
Has anyone been able to define well or measure differences between vinyl and digital?
It’s obvious right? They sound different, and I’m sure they measure differently. Well we know the dynamic range of cd’s is larger than vinyl.
But do we have an agreed description or agreed measurements of the differences between vinyl and digital?
I know this is a hot topic so I am asking not for trouble but for well reasoned and detailed replies, if possible. And courtesy among us. Please.
I’ve always wondered why vinyl sounds more open, airy and transparent in the mid range. And of cd’s and most digital sounds quieter and yet lifeless than compared with vinyl. YMMV of course, I am looking for the reasons, and appreciation of one another’s experience.
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- 137 posts total
@clearthinker , I don't think there is anything to support you current view. I am not sure issues in playback when CDs came out was due to jitter, the brickwall filters, or just poor quality playback equipment. I have not delved into it extensively and I am more interested in the here and now. When I can look at a jitter test on a Schitt Modi+ for $129 and even on Toslink the jitter components are -130db, and better on other inputs, jitter is not something to concern ourselves. I have read even old studio equipment had good clocks for the ADC even if the DACs did not for the stuff we bought. Dither can be added analog or digital. It extends the dynamic range. It works. What is your concern about it? CD reproduces to 20KHz. It have been many decades since my ears heard 20KHz. What do you think we are losing by not having higher frequencies. 24/96 would solve that issue. Someone posted above that with vinyl as you move to the inner grooves, there is not much above 10KHz and it is all distorted. I am still back with @asctim. All the points he lists are real. I am more inclined to believe that things that are real and identifiable, including mastering, are why we often like vinyl, as opposed to interpretations of digital audio that are either incorrect or have no evidence to support. Is that the simple explanation? I think so. |
@thespeakerdude My issue is certainly not with HF performance. Like yours, my ears now go nowhere near 20kHz now anyway. My first post referenced those comments that digital sound is 'lifeless' compared with vinyl. I also find this with a lot of CDs but certainly not all. The absolute worst one I heard was actually by Chesky (a symphony, can't remember which, I haven't looked at it for 25 years) that I found unlistenable, notwithstanding it was supposed to be better. So what is the cause of this perceived lifelessness? Certainly uprated digital generally sounds much better, no argument. I have a few SACDs. Pretty well all are better than the best CDs; and some of are excellent and sound to me better than the vinyl equivalents. In my view this doesn't deny my proposition; breaking the performance down into smaller pieces reduces the translation error - this is proved by elementary calculus. |
Just read this lighter version towards the maths and physics of these two formats: Scientific American 2017 article
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There seems to be competing explanations of the recording file format characteristics. This is a maths and physics question and should be able to be resolved. Then there are subjective experiences and these are equally conflicting. There are areas of agreement such as higher or airier mid-range of vinyl and the less noisy cd format and some agreement of SACD as better than cd. Ideas like some music styles may better suit certain formats better, classical with vinyl for example depend on technology justification that isn’t yet fully accepted. On the other hand, the civility in this conversation despite differences has been glorious and I hope that we can continue this way.
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- 137 posts total