TONEARM DAMPING : DAMPED OR NOT ? ? USELESS ? ? WELCOMED ? ?

In reading through this thread after so many months of its existence, it seems to me that most commenters are mixing together two different phenomena. The first is the resonant frequency that we calculate from tonearm effective mass and cartridge compliance. This resonance we want to lie in the range 8 to 12Hz, or very close to it. This resonance will not "happen" unless vibrational energy in the range of the resonant frequency is fed into the "system", defining the system as the tonearm/cartridge and anything attached to the tonearm or cartridge. Energy at or near that resonant frequency will excite the unwanted response. The second kind of resonance would be that which results from playing music, where a wide range of audible frequencies (but almost never in the range of 8 to 12Hz) is constantly being fed into the system due to the contact between stylus and groove where the frequencies are encoded and due also to any source of acoustic feedback in the listening room. Seems to me it is this latter source of resonance(s) that we want to control or eliminate, so the conventional matching of tonearm and cartridge based on effective mass and compliance is not so primary in this pursuit.

As a result, you could have a tonearm/cartridge that are well matched based on the equation that predicts "resonant frequency", but the combination may sound bad due to the excitation of undamped or inadequately damped resonances caused by higher audio frequencies. You could also have a tonearm/cartridge that are a bad match based on the standard equation based on tonearm effective mass and cartridge compliance but sounds wonderful (so long as it is isolated from the sub-audio frequencies that excite the inherent resonance), because the tonearm is well damped or otherwise built to avoid resonances excited at audio frequencies.

Dear @lewm  : Certainly you had not experiences with the main subject thread and seems that you did not read carefully may latest posts.

It's not that the cartridge /tonearm match can does achieve that absolute necessary FREE MOVEMENT in the ridding cartridge stylus but that along that match the tonearm ( any ) must be a well damped design.

When we achieve those the rewards are unimaginable specially for audiophiles with out the " very good damped tonearm design ". NO, your love for the FR and the 505 is only " your love " but it's full of distortions/colorations that you love and that's all. It's wrong to use that kind of audio items if we want to stay nearer to the recording and as always that's my target and when any one achieve that target he will has an experience in MUSIC reproduction way better than never before. Of course that that gentleman needs to own a good room/system with high resolution and obviously with very good first hand experiences with live MUSIC events seated at near field position.

I still own your FR and owned the 505, that's why I'm posting about. 

R.

What did I just write that’s in conflict with what you just wrote? And I know very well how you feel about the FR64S. Nothing I just wrote was in defense of the FR. Try to work on understanding my English before needlessly attacking it.

Dear @lewm : First I’m not attaking you.

" are mixing together two different phenomena "

In my latest post I was not mixing anything but only said:

" It’s not that the cartridge /tonearm match can achieve that absolute necessary FREE MOVEMENT in the ridding cartridge stylus but that along that match the tonearm ( any ) must be a well damped design. "

both phenomena must exist always, no matters what and there is no conflict.

Btw, I’m talking for me. All those is only about the cartridge/tonearm but we must add that always we need a good damping TT mat and a good damping clamp as the reflex Bais audio and that the TT be well damped at its plynth and the plattform that's supporting it and we need not forget the tonearm arm mount that needs be well damped too.

R.

I haven't read thru this entire thread.....sorry but been listening to music. Have a question. Why doesn't the new Kuzma Safir 9 arm not use damping fluid like 4POINT? Also have seen on other sites where people that own the 4POINT have actually removed the top dampening trough that they say improves sonics. Curious others thoughts.