Has anyone been able to define well or measure differences between vinyl and digital?

@cleeds

A math theorem is a principle that can be proven with math. The Fourier Transform is a theorem. It has been proven by both math and in actual implementation - it's the basis of both digital and analog audio. Your alternative paradigms aren't consistent with Fourier. You're probably having fun with your fanciful imaginings but that's all they are. If you want to make actual progress you'll have to accept the math. Anything else is futile and more than a bit silly.

Let's make it more interesting. Shall we?

You likely know who Bob Stuart is:

Despite his lifelong achievements and indisputable expert status, audiophile community met MQA format he co-created with significant controversy, e.g. 

I propose reading a peer-reviewed paper he co-authored:

And then telling us what Tidal did wrong to further stir up the MQA controversy. And perhaps what Tidal and others can do in the future to improve the MQA situation. You may think it can't be improved, and this would be interesting to hear too. 

I hope the ensuing discussion would be very relevant to topic at hand, because Tidal and other "Ultra HD" music streaming services hasn't yet made a dent in LP sales, but I believe they may do so in the near future.

@thespeakerdude : Very curious from your username: what are your own speakers? Thanks you

@johnread57 , I came across this NPR interview again, has some good comments on this topic. I am going to copy some and a link to the whole article.

https://www.npr.org/2012/02/10/146697658/why-vinyl-sounds-better-than-cd-or-not

METCALFE: Well, I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I'm primarily a recording engineer, as far as working with music. And it's - the closer thing to what I'm sending into the recorder is very much what I'm getting back out. With analog formats, although the sound can be very pleasing in certain styles, it's definitely imparting its own sound on it. And I think, to an extent, it's that sound that some people are really drawn to. But it's nice as an engineer to have the confidence of knowing that what I'm putting into - in most cases these days, the computer - is pretty close to what I'm going to get out.

OLIVE: Well, I mean, I grew up listening to records up until about '85, when the CD was already out. And I was involved in testing loudspeakers up at the National Research Council in Canada. And we were testing cartridges at that time, and it was quite apparent that the amount of distortion coming out of these devices was very high compared to CD. So what we found was that vinyl was a limiting factor in our ability to do accurate and reliable listening tests on loudspeakers, and we had to find a more reliable and more accurate medium.

@johnread57, this is not at all about vinyl, but about analog tape recording from the perspective of a recording engineer. There are some great sound bites to listen to. Summary: Digital comes out just like the way you put it in. Analog recording does not sound like what you put in. It may sound better. It may sound worse. This guy has 9 albums nominated for Grammy’s. He is not a hack.  Vinyl has a lot more distortion than digital and it rises with frequency. Add this to the qualities of vinyl that others has posted here.

http://recordinghacks.com/2013/01/26/analog-tape-vs-digital/

Here is another from a musician (60 recorded works) and recording engineer (100 albums)

https://aestheticsforbirds.com/2021/04/07/an-audio-professionals-take-on-vinyl/

There is MOFI, and this, http://drewdaniels.com/audible.pdf

The test results show that the CD-quality A/D/A loop was undetectable at normal-to-loud listening levels, by any of the subjects, on any of the playback systems.

Step 1, accept that properly implemented digital, even CD quality, has no sound or so little to be ignored. Step 2, accept that vinyl and other analog formats have a particular sound, or many sounds, and that we like it because it has those sounds that appeal to us, as living, breathing humans. Step 3, figure out what those sounds are and encourage audio companies to work on them and recording and mixing engineers to make better use of them. Step 4, accept that we are mostly a group of old buggers, and maybe young people don’t like the same thing. I tried to research more on this last item but I didn’t find a lot of work on it.

I've seen accounts of experimental results seemingly proving that CD format is perceptually transparent. Also, accounts of experiments seemingly proving the opposite.

Not satisfied with what I've seen in these papers, I conducted my own experiments over the past decade, where I controlled the whole recording and reproduction chain. The results, for me personally, were more definitive.

I have to disclose at that point that I'm educated, certified, and worked in the areas of Physics and Neurophysiology, including stints in several national labs, in Europe and USA.

So, my standard of inquiry is rather high. When the outcome of an experiment depends on accurate detection of one photon vs two arriving within a given microsecond, it has to be.

Experiments in psychoacoustics are hard, mostly because music signals and the final "instrument" - human hearing system - are very variable. Thus, I put more faith in meta-studies rather than in individual experiments, including my own.

Meta-studies, for instance like the one I already referred to in this thread:

Proponents of this or that point of view like focusing on one particular study, or a handful of them, proving their point. I don't believe that's the way to go.

For instance, the oft-cited Boston Audio Society study (BAS study), which seemingly proved the perceptual transparency of the 16/44.1 digital loop, didn't conduct one of the mandatory steps any experimental science professional would do - calibration.

If an experiment is to elucidate the importance of distortions, one absolutely has to take into consideration the nature and levels of distortions inherent in the gear involved in the experiment. What do we have in the case of the BAS study?

https://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/explanation.htm

"The Principal System

The playback equipment in this system consisted of an Adcom GTP-450 preamp and a Carver M1.5t power amplifier."

What is Carver M1.5t power amplifier?

SINAD reveals that the amp's distortions are high and rising with frequency. "... distortion-free range = 14 to 11 bits". "Distortions rises @ 66 watts". "Max power = 273 watts @ 44 dB SINAD".

What the designers of the study should have done could include at least, back in mid-2000s: taking the Principal System into a certified anechoic chamber, and measuring its performance, including its distortion profile, using certified calibrated instruments.