Powered speakers show audiophiles are confused

@pcrhkr The only difference between a "plate amp" and a "chassis amp" (in an enclosed box) is the metal that surrounds the actual amplifier circuitry inside. Seriously- its packaging. nothing more.

Some of these "plate amps" amps you are describing might be crappy entry level amps, where the purpose is to build as cheap a system as possible, but we are not talking about that. That’s comparing an audiophile amp to a junk amp that was never intended to compete. So thinking a plate amp is crap is equal to saying "all speaker cables sound the same", or "all Class D amps suck" or some other generalization that does not prove itself true.

In the case of ATC, we make exactly the same amp outboard and onboard with heatsinks showing on the back of the speaker - a "plate amp"- that can be removed and serviced, should need arise. ATC also makes a fully discrete on board "plate amp" in their SE series, but these amps are better than the ATC chassis amps and are concealed inside the box with remote power supplies and all kinds of audiophile parts.

Every time this on board or outboard amp thing arises it seems like the ""active is not good " crowd is saying "the amp makes the most difference of any component so I need to be able to upgrade that". I would challenge that idea. It does make a difference, no doubt, but it’s certainly not THE most important.  I smell marketing.

Brad

Audiophiles like to use the word transparency. At moderate listening levels, the speaker will always be least transparent part perhaps with the exception of a turntable. No external amplifier that is not designed to interact with and drive one specific driver, in one specific configuration, can achieve the transparency of an application specific amplification.

@lonemountain Well said, marketing is the guiding force in high end audio. I understand cutting edge equipment is important but DACs that go way beyond what any human will ever hear, $25k anti vibration equipment racks colored fuses in which the PC circuits start and end in traces, marketing to the most gullible. Maybe it's time to form an audiophile society along with the AES or something like that because this is getting really silly.

@thespeakerdude I’m with you. 
 

If you want to significantly change the sound of a system, transducers- speakers and phono cartridges - are the way to do it.

An open question:  Is this above statement about change something audiophiles agree with?

@thespeakerdude When we speak at low levels our voices don't sound the same as when we speak louder as does a saxophone that plays softly doesn't sound like one playing loudly. When someone has automatic loudness DSP they are fooling themselves in more ways than one. As you said speakers and amps don't perform the same, the Fletcher Munsen curve is not the same, and the physics of the acoustic waveform are not the same in real life. I think part of audiophiles confusion is of course #1 marketing to rich people based on arrogance, but a close #2 is living in 2 worlds of music. If an audiophile wants to recreate an analog orchestra there are much different considerations than recreating a modern music group with computer based information. 

My Spiro Steinway grand that plays by its self is the perfect example of high end audio it sounds nearly perfect. There is so much difference between high end audio systems and the real thing it's not even worth talking about. When we see live music it's usually run through a PA and take it from me there are huge compromises when it comes to fidelity in every PA system and operator. I believe the answer to this problem is to understand the differences in our goals.