Discuss The Viv Lab Rigid Arm

Dear @melm : " the ultimate test is your ears and not some measurement. "

That depends on the kind of sound you want to listen: the one you " like it " even if is wrong or the one that’s rigth and like it.

Almost always when distortions goes a little higher we like it because we are listening to something different to what for 20-30 years we are accustom to and we really don’t care if distortions levels are higher because we are discovering a " new " kind of sound.

Normally those higher distortions comes as atransparent or very vivid at HF and as if those frequencies have no limit. There are other characteristics about.

In my case if my common sense says something is wrong then I don’t need to herad it: why should I if its wrong?useless but to each his own.

The reality is that those happy owners are wrong but as I said just don’t care because what they listen in their system just like it the more. Such is life but the really critical issue with all those owners is not that they like it listened sound but that they can't be aware or discern on those higher distortions and that could says that they really have not a tests proccess about and just don't know what to look for or even if some of them can discern on the higher distortions levels and as I said just don't care maybe because they already spend their money on it.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

@atmasphere Your Statement makes the claim,

" That rule is that there must be profound coupling between the surface of the platter and the mount of the cartridge. To this effect, there can be no slop in the platter bearings or arm bearings. In addition, the arm must be rigidly mounted to the plinth (and the plinth must be both dead and very rigid) such that any vibration that might occur at the platter will be in the same plane as that of the cartridge mount. "

In my view there are points made by yourself that are believed to having been addressed by many, but in a analysis of a variety of designs, there are to be discovered elements in the designs seen that veer away from this.

I have made it known in previous posts, I am a follower of a Design that is in place to offer a version of being a Rigidly Coupled Interface or as you have stated (no slop).

I have gone to the lengths of achieving this through having adopted various measures. Such measures have evolved over a period of time, where opportunities have been discovered to capitalise on the Philosophy.

Today, I work with a Hard System, (non yielding) not any soft materials unless the Cart's Damper is to be classed as a soft material in use.

The Plinth in use is produced from Panzerholz, the Chassis is mounted on the Plinth with a 0.1mm Tolerance for the fastenings. ( A design is very soon to be put to use where the TT's Chassis will removed and the P'holz Chassis will be the Plinth).

The Platter Bearing has been re-designed and new parts are used produced from a modern material, with clearance tolerances of 0.05mm on the machining of a Bush. There is another ream process required to complete the fitting of the Spindle.

With Lubricant in the Spindle /Bush Interface, the Run Off for the Platter when measured is seen in the very low microns and is extremely quiet in operation. There is a new design being produced, where it is expected that a Run Off showing 0.009mm and lower is able to be achieved, along with even further decreased noise being produced.

The Tonearm design has adopted the use of a different Modern Material, as used in the Bearing Housing, this material has proven to be very valuable for the design, and has enabled extremely tight tolerances (I can't say more on this).

The Spindle to Pillar Distance is set to a distance that is within 0.01 of the Manufacturers Dimension. The Tonearm is set into the Plinth (no arm board) with retaining fastenings centred to the same tolerances.

The producer assures these Tolerances survive Transit once set.

In relation to the Mechanical Interface, this is the best I am able to get access to, for the monies I am very comfortable spending. With what is already realised and the the upcoming Bearing Upgrade, it is not possible for me to imaging I will be needing more from a Mechanical Interface on a TT.

There is also work done to the Signal Path, that has been carried out so that there is possibly zero impedance on the function of the Tonearm due to the Internal Wiring configuration. A not so common seen Wire is in use as well, but that is a different subject.

I intend on adopting these principles to all the TT's I own and intend on interfacing with the Tonearm Design. 

With the extremely low friction design for the Tonearm Function and Platter Bearing Function, the search becomes what other influences can add friction.

The Tonearm Designer is using the Ultra Fine Polished Styli as a measure to further benefit the mechanical interfaces produced on both Tonearm and Platter Bearings.    

I don’t have a Viv arm, but I think it’s very interesting and positive that sometimes someone  « rethink » something we all thought the right way to do things (tonearm and tonearm’s geometry) for achieving our ultimate goal.

In a way Viv seems to be a nonsense but we have to accept many people for many years have some and all of them are more than satisfied with what they hear.

All these people are not subject to hallucinations of stupid or bad hearing. 
Apart from that they are ugly and do not allow you to use our audiophile toys for fine tuning.🛠🪛🔬😓

but in a analysis of a variety of designs, there are to be discovered elements in the designs seen that veer away from this.

Certainly. I see that as a mistake on their part, nothing more. The physics is inescapable.

I don’t disagree with Atma; the physics that suggest you need to tightly couple the tonearm pivot to the TT bearing is inescapable. However, there are many other "rules" that govern modern tonearm design, any one or several of which might be violated if one were to do a close analysis of any single design. The question then is what is the order of importance of these rules with respect to ultimate sound quality with a reasonable variety of cartridges. And what are the negative consequences of violating one or more of those principles? I think you then have to listen to the tonearm in action to determine its goodness. I have already stated that I wonder about the floating bearing (is the pivot well fixed in space? That’s another imperative.) and the skinny undamped arm wand (Will it resonate?) Yet the Viv float has been reviewed many times, and I don’t know of any reviews that were less than enthusiastic. We have already heard from two users of the Viv that they like it quite a bit. So it may be a "bad design", but it sounds good to most who have auditioned it. Certainly one does not want to dismiss such a product out of hand.

I might add that the Viv has a weighted base, and it is designed to be placed on the surface of the plinth, adjacent to the platter.  Thus it IS to some degree physically coupled to the bearing, to the degree that the plinth and bearing are tightly coupled, and the plinth will move if the bearing is disturbed.  So maybe the coupling between arm and bearing are tight "enough".