Powered speakers show audiophiles are confused

Maybe someone out there has a fix for this. Another very frustrating part of the journey for me.
Crossovers and hi/low pass filters are the most misunderstood part of the audio signal. My home theater looks at the subs and just 2 speakers in a stereo configuration for music in a different way than for movies. There is an LFE track for movies that is separate than the low frequencies that are going to the subs and at a different low pass range. Also the satellite speakers are not all the same size my surrounds have a different crossover points than the speakers in the ceiling for surround sound movies or surround sound music. I did have a JL Audio CL1 that was designed for just this problem but it actually added more low and high pass filters actually convoluting the entire system. Also the passive speakers have crossovers inside the cabinets to optimize the drivers. Also there is electronic DSP that creates optimized curves based on information from the way the speakers interact with the acoustics of the room, these curves will most likely not correspond exactly to all the other curves our modern systems have in them and of course the microphone doing the DSP corrections is not flat therefore adding false curves from the devise that is supposed to fix all of this mess.

Pure stereo systems are great but the future is surround sound I think the winner is clearly Dolby Atmos but having separate systems for stereo and movies, music and cinema is a bit silly. There are other aspects of the audio signal that change the curve like phase knobs, separate EQ on subs, different pass filter fall off rates, built in EQ on preamps, A to D converters, D to A converts, etc. There is no way to have a modern music playback system that is coherent in any respect unless you have a system with 1 A to D / D to A converter and a good sounding room requiring no DSP. 

I have went out and recorded choirs with 1 very good stereo microphone (multi microphones always have phase issues by definition) and plugged that direct recording into an amp and listened on 2 speakers (also a phase issue). The result is like eating a fish that you just caught out of a mountain stream, it is an entirely different test and experience than when you buy fish at the market. 

No only are audiophiles confused but manufactures are confused because playback systems are not made like your ears, in electronics it is very difficult to not introduce feedback into the circuit for efficiency sake, so even at the base of a simple amplifier circuit we are already swimming upstream. Interestingly enough Edison when he was recording to a wax disk moving the musicians farther and closer to get the volumes right (mixing) he didn't have any of these problems, maybe that was the last phase coherent recording. 

@donavabdear

I think we are drifting off topic of powered speakers, if you start your build thread with the topic you just posted it would be better fit.

As far as separate systems I think your mixing system is separate yes, everything for your personal system can/should have the Lyngdorf processor and Paradigm speakers at the heart for at least the next year. If my income was linked to my mixing system I would optimize that first.

You have a flagship processor with flagship speakers and a flagship CUSTOMER (oscar winning engineer, right)= flagship performance, it should be pretty straight forward as you have everything you need (and then some).

Don't worry, this is NOT the "Titanic" 😁

@donavabdear ,

The microphones will be flat. They are calibrated when used for room correction.

The Lyngdorf should allow you to adjust the target curve. If you don’t find it warm enough, up the bass a bit, lower the mid-upper highs, and then adjust the mid-range to suit. You may get closer to what you like.

The imaging is likely better from a more consistent channel-channel frequency response and less distortion.

Also there is electronic DSP that creates optimized curves based on information from the way the speakers interact with the acoustics of the room, these curves will most likely not correspond exactly to all the other curves our modern systems have in them

The fundamental challenge in room correction is balancing these two conflicting requirements:

• As close to a flat direct frequency response as possible, at least from about 1-5KHz, ideally from 200Hz - 6 or 7 KHz for each speaker
• Consistent left and right channel room response
• A room response that is somewhat close to the researched Harman room curve that seems to suit most people.

DSP can only do so much. You need to start with an acoustically tolerant space.

There are other aspects of the audio signal that change the curve like phase knobs, separate EQ on subs, different pass filter fall off rates, built in EQ on preamps, A to D converters, D to A converts, etc.

I wouldn’t get too hung up on this. For one, if you are using passive speakers that are not time aligned, the speaker is likely the biggest contributor. Two, many room correction systems will do time alignment. Three, reflections make a mess. Last, four, we are not that sensitive to phase changes. Well researched area. In design, our critical measure is always no phase discontinuities. You never want the phase to change quickly.

No only are audiophiles confused but manufactures are confused because playback systems are not made like your ears, in electronics it is very difficult to not introduce feedback into the circuit for efficiency sake, so even at the base of a simple amplifier circuit we are already swimming upstream.

Are you implying electronic feedback is bad? Poorly implemented amplifiers are bad. Feedback is not bad.

I have went out and recorded choirs with 1 very good stereo microphone (multi microphones always have phase issues by definition) and plugged that direct recording into an amp and listened on 2 speakers (also a phase issue). The result is like eating a fish that you just caught out of a mountain stream, it is an entirely different test and experience than when you buy fish at the market.

Is it real or is it Memorex? When I was young, and would go to clubs, I hated when they had a band and preferred DJ. Now I would prefer a band as long as they are decent. Does age hone our skills to detect authenticity? I have always preferred a well recorded live album, but that is not a simple stereo pair microphone. Untapped market for artists that are authentically talented?

I work in advertising - and during edits and voiceovers the best speakers I’ve ever heard were powered Genelecs. Just so damn accurate. I almost pulled the trigger on a pair three weeks ago. 

@snapoli2 if you do get the Genelecs absolutely positively only get "the ones" doesn't matter what model you get they are all very good. Genelec took a huge step forward with these , you won't go wrong.