Why HiFi Gear Measurements Are Misleading (yes ASR talking to you…)

@andy2 

Why then SS amp always has a haze where as tube amps always has a transparent sound but we all know tube always have inferior frequency response vs. ss.

In short you can't measure it.

Oh we can and do.  Measurements say that they don't have haze.  And proper listening tests confirm the same.  That you think otherwise means you are in dire need of performing a controlled test where you don't know which is which.  Otherwise, your bias as stated above will always give you what you want to hear, pun intended.

In my testing of many tube amps, they either have low enough distortion to sound just like solid state devices.  Or, they have sufficient distortion to sound muddy at lower volumes and then get quite distorted.  No way are they transparent in any form or fashion.  Now, if you are not good at hearing such non-linear impairments, then and you operate under the above bias, then your conclusion will be what you stated.

See, all explainable.

@tcotruvo 

In the debate about science vs senses as a way to evaluate audio equipment…

??? Audio science heavily embodies listening tests and so includes our senses.  It however does that correctly by testing just what we hear, not what we pick up with other senses.  

@thyname 

How can you know? Objective proof? Check Ali Express. Available to your business friendly US market place. Ali express. App. There is a thread here in Audiogon. Did you send your Nordost cable to the company for authentication?

How do I know you are a real human being?  Maybe you are the output of AI/ChatGPT.  Can you prove you are not? 

Alternatively you could be a shill for high-end audio companies.  Can you prove you are not?

As to the cable, company could have reached out to me stating I tested a clone.  Why don't you write to them and ask.  Until then, I am pretty sure of what I tested as I trust the owner saying he bought all that expensive cables on the insistence of the people who sold him his Chord DAC.

You guys are really running on empty to be making these arguments....

@amir_asr , thanks for responding with a constructive perspective. It would be nice if all debates on the internet were this friendly and constructive, but it is what it is, as they say. Another way of saying it isn’t what it should be.

The problem with your argument is, I agree with everything you have said. I’ve many times been tricked by my own mind, only to realize later that my initial findings were flawed. But over time, and not a heck of a lot of time, say 2-3 weeks of “living with” a component, I find that I can arrive at a more stable and true subjective assessment of a component. One that personally, I find goes beyond what the measurements can tell us.

I don’t feel the need to win arguments, and I am comfortable with alternate perspectives coexisting with my own. I believe Audio Science Review is great for checking out how gear physically performs, but my own perspective is that too much emphasis is attributed to these measurements in terms of how much we can expect to subjectively enjoy a particular component. I think this is the fundamental point where our perspectives diverge.

I believe that other factors come into play as well. One particular example that seemed to rub some the wrong way is ASR’s review of the Mustec MA005, where ASR reported poor performance. I also see forum posts from some folks who report that the Musetec bests the more expensive Mola Mola Tambaqui which performed well in ASR’s measurements. Including one guy who sold his Tambaqui after he heard the Mustec. However, in each of these posts from people who prefer the Mustec, I’ve noticed they are feeding the DAC with an inexpensive Roon Rock NUC or a Mac Mini. I do wonder if the tables would be turned if feeding the DAC’s with a higher end streamer like the Grimm MU1. In other words, I wonder if the Tambaqui in these cases is simply exposing the flaws of the source more easily than the Musetec, or in other cases, the Holo May (which some say bests the Tambaqui) which yes, shows that it rolls off the upper frequencies more sharply that the Tambaqui. All this to say, that sometimes, maybe a lesser performing component may sound better given lesser surrounding components in one’s system. Which again, judging a piece by measurements would never provide any useful context in these situations.

Why then SS amp always has a haze where as tube amps always has a transparent sound but we all know tube always have inferior frequency response vs. ss.

In short you can't measure it.

I have never heard a haze when listening to an SS amp, or some startling clarity with tubes. However, one factor that may affect your personal listening experience is most tube amplifiers have high output resistance. Couple that with the right (wrong) speakers and you can accentuate some frequencies by even a few db. Maybe you interpret that as haze, maybe it even compensates for a speaker/room response issue.  Then again, it could just be what Amir stated a biased view.