Surreal Speakers: Made to order in Virginia, USA

Lewinskih01,

"Do you think the improved imaging - a key design goal in my case - is driven by being a point source more than being time-aligned?"

In my experience, time alignment, phase and point source are factors in getting great imaging from a set of speakers. A good starting point with a mult-drive system is probably keeping the cross-over as simple and phase aligned as possible, e.g., a 6db per octave Butterworth. There are sooooo many variables and trade-offs. For example, some of the most precise imaging speakers I've ever heard are the original Avalon Eidolon speakers, but this is a three-way speaker with a complex crossover from which Neil Patel has created a bit of magic. There is no single path.

Curious, Rush... Have you moved on to these speakers?

Lewinskih01 ... I noted from your 11/29 post that you are considering DIY speakers and also mentioned the import of time alignment.

I don't know anything about Surreal or its drivers. But I have been doing a vertical learning curve on time alignment. If you think the Surreal drivers are special and might be used in your DIY project, I'd like to suggest you consider incorporating a DEQX unit in your set-up.

You can learn more about DEQX in the threads "Is DEQX a Game Changer?" and "Sloped Baffles." Also, Kal Rubinson just reviewed the DEQX PreMATE in the December Stereophile issue.

I bought the PreMATE about 2 months ago. And yeah ... it made a big difference.

I agree with Rushton's comment that speaker design entails many compromises. Classic time coherent speakers necessarily require their drivers to cover a larger frequency pass band because they use 1st order crossovers which cut over at 6 db per octave. I somewhat dubious that the drivers used in such speakers can really maintain linear performance over the larger pass band at which they are asked to perform. Also, room EQ effects can be quite considerable.

Ergo the DEQX. My speakers use a 3rd order crossover (18 db per octave) between the tweeter and midrange and a 2nd order crossover (12 db per octave) between the woofers and midrange. To put it mildly, my speakers were a time INcoherent mess, but the DEQX PreMATE tamed them very nicely. Plus, my room twisted the FR of my speakers into an acoustic pretzel. The PreMATE did room EQ correction too.

Bottom line: I think the DEQX PreMATE has helped me squeeze a lot more performance out of my system.

An Acoustic pretzel, what an image, I am having some difficulty with that. I was a little surprised but don't doubt the veracity of quality control problems with the legendary Lowthers. It has been a darling of the single driver crowd for a verty long time. The AERs look like the German answer to a single driver intense strong superbly engineered and taking no prisoners (another easy audio concept)!

Hey Bif!

We've been coming across these threads a fair amount lately. A good thing! Yes, we exchanged in the sloped baffle and the DEQX threads regarding these same aspects. I've been thinking about it for a while. And will continue doing so for a while too. Before going the DIY speaker route I want to implement DRC through Acourate, then digital crossovers and multiamped system.

These AER drivers are intriguing though, just as the dipole subwoofer section is. Accomplishing crossovers in the digital domain seems to be less of a challenge than with analog XO, from some reading I've been doing.

Cheers!