jeffstrick
149 posts
Move along little doggies.
Immature reply. And I am being nice. Childish really. Someone stole your toy?
AES/EBU cable shootout
As I had promised (please refer to Grimm Mu1 thread and Fee for Audition thread under Digital for more context), I am going to share my experiences using different AES/EBU cables in my system. I am going to gloss over the general question of whether cables, especially digital cables make a difference. I am always careful in choosing my components, and unless something makes a tangible improvement in sound, I will never pay for something. If something makes an improvement, I do evaluate if it’s worth the asking price, and only then do I purchase it. So it’s up to you to decide if something is worth the price that you pay for. Also, please note that, these findings apply to my system in my room and may not translate into the same findings in your system.
Now let’s go into what I heard in my system. I had the following AES/EBU cables. The Mogami cable, Shunyata Omega cable, Nordost Odin 2 cable and the Sablon cable. Unfortunately I was unable to obtain the Jorma design cable as I was unable to reach the cable company either through phone or email. I am not aware of any other dealer who carries it near me.
There is a significant difference between the basic Mogami and the rest of the cables. The difference is easy to discern in the bass. There is simply more texture, dimensionality, and clarity that is missing in bass with the Mogami cable. This is unfortunate as this is the cheapest cable. The rest of the cables are closer to each other. It takes a bit of back-and-forth of listening to discern the differences.
First up was the Shunyata cable. This is an excellent digital cable which is extremely natural sounding. Everything sounds clear with a nice sound stage. The sound stage extends beyond the speakers with a nice depth to it. There is a sense of fullness to the sound, more fleshed out, but in a very natural way. This is the first cable that I had for evaluation (this belongs to my friend). I will be very happy with this cable, if it were my only option. This cable retails for around 4.5 k.
Next step was the Nordost Odin 2 cable. I understand that there is a significant jump in price as this cable retails for over 12 K. The difference between the Shunyata and the Odin 2 cable is more subtle. The primary difference is in the sound stage. The sound extends well beyond the speakers and front to depth soundstage is increased compared to Shunyata. There is also more detail and air at the top end. There is slightly more dynamics with the Odin 2 cable on back-and-forth listening. Please note, these differences are not in your face but subtle. Whether this is worth the price difference is something only you can decide.
The last cable that I had was the Sablon cable. The other cables measured 1.5 m but the Sablon was 1 m. I could not test if the length of cable makes a difference as I did not have the same cable in different lengths. (Please refer to Grimm Mu1 thread for context.)
The Sablon cable brings a lot of nuance to the entire spectrum of sound. The bass is taut and has a lot of finesse. String instruments reveal a good amount of inner detail, whether it’s plucking or bowing. Percussion sounds realistic. It nicely brings out the textures and extremely accurate with regards to tone and timbre. The mid range is extremely clear and well presented, which is one of the strengths of this cable. The top end is clean and extremely accurate. It has an uncanny ability to make the softest sounds really fleshed out and clear. If are a Pink Floyd fan “Hello Colonel, how are you tonight” never sounded this clear, it’s like you are on shrooms.
This is how I would compare the Shunyata, Nordsost and Sablon. The system plays a huge role in laying out the differences. The bass is similar in all the three cables, they go deep, feel taut and have a lot of textures. It’s the midrange and highs that sound different. Nordstrom has a very neutral and sweet presentation that is very inviting. It sizzles in the top end and has superb dynamics. The other two cables cannot touch the Nordost in the highs. The Sablon shines in the midrange. It has one of the most accurate midrange sound and sounds really organic. The nordost is close but Sablon wins the midrange. The Shunyata is close to the other cables but does not sound better. So what did I choose? The sizzling dynamic Nordost or the realistic sounding Sablon?
I always believed that the highs are most important for music to sound alive and imparting the feeling of being there. But Sablon changed my opinion, it’s the midrange that gives the sensation of live music. The Sablon made the music sound more alive than other 2 cables. The difference with Nordost is subtle but definite. The other important thing especially for me was tone and timbre. I play violin and I value tone and timbre (reason for the choice of my speakers) as the most important attribute.The Sablon again wins this. Of course the price is the icing on the cake. So I have decided to buy the Sablon. Of course, in your system and for your ears, the outcome may not be the same. My recommendation is to try before you buy especially considering the price of the these cables.
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@svenjosh Thanks for trying to help demistify the possible causes that make that digital cables can sound different. Just to clarify, it was not my intention to create turmoil here, which seemed to have happened. I am genuinely interested in how come digi-cables can sound different. There have also been other digital threads on this forum and also there the debate quickly ran out of hand. I understand Shannon’s data capacity theorem. With PCM audio however we are way on the safe side ... even the max AES/EBU spec stream of 24bit/192kHz is still less than 10Mbps, which should be easy to handle, USB2 is specced at 480. You heard the difference, so there must be a difference. Could it really be that with all digital cables the data reaches the other end corrupted, as your explanation suggests? (This should by the way be easy to measure.) But with some cables less so than with others? Which makes their sound can have improved texture, dimensionality, and clarity? I wonder if maybe there can also be other reasons, ones that lie elsewhere than in the digital domain? Yet, what matters most is if one can hear the difference. To understand how it is caused merely is to satisfy ones (my) curiosity. EDIT: I thought this article interesting, although also this only states that there are audible differences between digital cables but does not shine much light on where these stem from: https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/audiophile-insights/digital-insights/digital-cables-compared-aesebu-coaxtoslink-and-st-glass/
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@svenjosh Thanks for your insightful cable review, we all know it's not easy to get all these expensive cables in the same place at the same time. I'm a DSD guy myself so I use USB but I really appreciate your review, it gives a reflection of different manufactures and the sounds they are achieving. Well done. |
You didn’t cause any issues. Questions, explanations, debate and answers have always been welcome at Audiogon.
I was at a dinner some years ago with some really smart people (definitely not me) where part of the room was contemplating investing in the company represented by the other part of the room.
One of the key leaders in the company in question also happened to enjoy music and while he didn’t have an elaborate system by some standards, he was a streaming only user. This was in the earliest (pre JayZ) days of Tidal. Unprovoked, when he found out I was also streaming my music, he became quite animated and we had a terrific conversation. I came away with a quasi explanation that satisfied my curiosity and also has guided my streaming decisions since. I asked the question why some streamed music sounded different than the same track from the same hard drive streamed differently. At the time I was struggling with why USB feeding a Berkeley USB to SPDIF converter sounded better than USB direct to the same dac.
The explanation he gave was well over my head but it was clear to me he had given it a great deal of thought. He explained that not only does ethernet and USB data transmission have error correction built in, it was designed to deal with the errors because there errors are a foregone conclusion. The premise is that errors are to be expected because they will ALWAYS be present so the protocols were designed to deal with the presence of errors. The reason it isnt a big deal with most data is that the absolute timing of the data and more importantly, the lack of requirement for CONTIGUOUS data isn’t necessary in most applications. If a one billion dollar electronic transfer from bank to bank begins “on-time” and concludes 1 millisecond later than expected, it isnt a big deal. In fact, its a desired outcome in that it is likely that the data was error checked. Now, imagine streaming music. It absolutely requires proper buffering. FULL STOP. You cant have the data stream begin and then “error check” on the fly. Jittery at best, drop outs at worst. SO, how is the buffering performed, how much of the data is able to be buffered into memory, what and how is the data streamed from the buffer and what/where/method is the clocking/reclocking performed? There was alot more to the conversation and todays streamers/dacs do a wonderful job with the challenge. Some do it better than others and some do it completely differently.
Anyway, fast forward to today. We are still in the process of understanding why certain materials, lengths of cable, shielding or lack thereof along with which method of transmission provides the best results and which do not. But it is audible. Ive tried to buy equipment from companies that seem to have a grasp of the importance of timing, lower jitter and clocking. The good news for us all is that most of what’s available today does a decent job of dealing with the aforementioned. Its when we get to the point where we are trying to maximize performance. The bits are bits camp just simply havent explored the topic deeply enough to understand how much there is to be discovered. |
Thanks for the story and the insights on the importance of timing @ghasley I think I best plug my USB stick directly into the DAC ... cheapest solution! :) |
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